Am I the only one who has no faith in midwives - contentious topic I know....

[RedFraggle]

I had a bit of a nightmare delivery and ended up with an emergency c-section so possibly my views are slightly warped...

I am having an elective this time around for various reasons, but I have to admit that I felt a huge flush of relief when I realised it meant I wouldn't have to rely on any midwives as I have no faith or trust in them at all. Can I be the only woman on Mumsnet who would really prefer NOT to have midwives involved in their birth? All the threads I have seen seem very pro-midwife and I was just curious...

Snaf, go to bed .

One of my midwives (I was in for 10 days, had complications) was plain nasty. I caught her taking the p*ss out of me when she didn't think I could see. In the middle of the night the fire alarm went off but it coincided with me needing the loo, so wanted to ask if it was ok to go, and waited just outside the door of my room, opposite the "nurses station". Obviously no-one noticed me for some time. She did a very nasty impersonation of me, and when she didn't get enough laughter from the other midwives and staff, she did it again. She obviously didn't notice that I was watching everything. I confronted her about it and of course she denied it (and it was definitely me she was being nasty about, she said my name, which isn't a name that's commonly used).
When I made a complaint, she said I was obviously distressed by the fire alarm going off in the middle of the night and all she had done was mention it to colleagues...having spent 3 months in another hospital after having my dd previously, I was very used to fire alarms from burnt toast, and not that distressed by it.
Nothing came of my complaint, despite plenty of midwives witnessing it.

I have posted this before on a similar thread ages ago, at the time I was working as a midwife on a busy "high risk" postnatal ward(ie women who have medical problems or have had c sections etc). There was only one midwife to deal with 14 women and 14 babies, some of those babies required 3 hourly blood sugar tests, or needed blood tests taking for bilirubin levels while receiving phototherapy. And the mothers required temp pulse and blood pressures regularly (half hourly alot of the time), bed baths, medication, Catheter bags emptying/changing, breastfeeding help, admitting and discharging each woman took alot of time too... I did most shifts with no drink/food/break whatsoever and never got home on time, and never received a penny over my basic wage for that either. I had reached the brink of despair, crying after each shift, some of my colleagues cried during the shift. Luckily I was moved to the low risk birthing unit at this point by chance and am much happier, but the midwives I left behind are more unhappy than ever.
For every hour you spent helping one woman breastfeed successfully another 13 women were left struggling alone... There are few who can remain cheery and caring when they feel completely undervalued and uncared for themselves.

Hey snaf. Nice to see another student midwife on here. I felt equally bad about some of the comments . And I'll make sure I'll never change in one of those midwives described in this thread. If I see myself turning into one of them I'll leave the profession!

I know there are mainly great midwives but my experience has shattered my confidence and left me petrified of giving birth again! I was induced at 4pm, my husband was sent home at 7pm, the pain came on very quickly. During my frequent visits to her station, the midwife in question couldn't have been less interested. She told me I wouldn't have the baby for at least 24 hours, that I should just walk up and down the corridor, that I had to be in established labour before she could give me any pain relief and she refused to monitor me. It was only when i couldn't stop screaming that she finally took any notice of me and by then i was 8cm dilated. When i think back to it, it's not the pain i remember but feeling so lonely. I don't want to sound pathetic but surely she could have sat with me and helped me to breathe or to put on the tens machine, she wasn't busy. My daughter is nearly 2 and I thought I would have forgotten it all by now. Any suggestions for how to move forward?

I don't think its just understaffing...

I had one on one the whole labour and birth due to being a homebirth which was then transferred for low heart rate in baby.

And I had a number of problems with the midwife - it was my first birth so maybe I just expected too much -please tell me!

1. I kept asking what positions would be good while in labour, and she would just say no position is going to feel good right now. Later on I learned about going on all fours, squatting, rolling hips, lying on left side etc. As it was I just stayed on my knees the whole time.

1. The internal was awful, and I was horrified that she kept going with it even though I started a contraction and it was almost unbearable. I would have thought that she could have been more gentle, and that she could have waited till the contraction was over.

1. My waters broke when she examined me and to this day I am suspicious that she did it on purpose though she wrote it down as spontaneous, because she thought it was taking too long.

1. She kept taking phone calls from people and answering, 'not at this rate' - by which I guessed her husband has rung and asked her saying are you going to be home for dinner. Not very encouraging when you're trying to do your'e best.

So did I expect too much?

Anyway THIS time I am buying loads of books on active birth, water birth, etc. andreading avidly and exercising so that hopefully I won't need to ask anything and can just get on with it!

Snaf, No way should midwives reading this take it personally. I commented that I felt "loved" by my midwife, as though she really loved me, and was in this job for the pure pleasure of helping women give birth. That doesnt mean I think all midwives are like that, so that is why Ill make sure I have her again if I ever need it. IF you`re going to go down the road of taking the bad comments personally, are you going to take the good ones like that too? WE have no idea whether you are one of the good ones or the bad ones. Only the women who labour with you can tell you that.

Snaf, No way should midwives reading this take it personally. I commented that I felt "loved" by my midwife, as though she really loved me, and was in this job for the pure pleasure of helping women give birth. That doesnt mean I think all midwives are like that, so that is why Ill make sure I have her again if I ever need it. IF you`re going to go down the road of taking the bad comments personally, are you going to take the good ones like that too? WE have no idea whether you are one of the good ones or the bad ones. Only the women who labour with you can tell you that.

ihatethehighstreet, I know what you mean. My dd is almost 2 and I still can't totally get over the nasty birth experience. I did find having a debrief with consultant helped a lot and I was referred by him to a specialist counsellor at the hospital who dealt with women who had had traumatic births. She was fantastic, it was lovely to be able to talk about what had happened to someone who could help me to rationalise it.
I actually had to go back again to see her when my dh and I decided we wanted to have a second baby as I totally flipped out at the idea of going through something similar again. I think getting to see a counsellor was the best thing I did, but I wouldn't have got any help at all but for my dh telling my health visitor (who was wonderful incidentally) about my flashbacks and nightmares etc. I'm back to having issues again now as I'm pregnant again, but before I got pregnant I was feeling back to normal so I'm hoping that after I've had this baby I will return to normality again. I guess I'm trying to say - in a very rambling way - that help is there but you do have to ask for it...

Snaf - please don't take this thread personally, I certainly don't think all midwives are horrid and crap. I just had a bad experience and have to say that my ante-natal care was ok except one midwife, my hospital experience was bad and my post-natal care was ok. So I know there are some good ones out there. Believe me, I know it must be a hard job, but it was a choice of career for some of these not so good midwives and I don't see that they should be providing sub-standard care. I cannot trust midwives again knowing how badly a poor one can mess up your birth experience and indeed your own mental health for a considerable time afterwards.

Oh and quick tip for any midwives who want to know another thing not to do!
When visiting a new mum after she gets home, do not read out shocking chunks of her hospital notes. I had one who each time she came would give me another snippet,
Her - "gosh, XX amount of blood loss! That's practically a haemorrage!"
I then start thinking, I almost haemorraged, no-one told me. Did I really? Oh crap! cue panic attacks over bleeding to death!!
Not ideal... as you can see, I can laugh about this bit now, but at the time, on top of everything else.. what was she thinking!

for anyone who is traumatised by their birth experience, for whatever reason, whether it was 6 weeks or 6 years ago, i can highly recommend getting in touch with

birth trauma association

and

sheila kitzinger;s birth crisis

Redfraggle I think some women like to boast about their bad birth experiences once they're recovered from them as I've heard two mums at DD's school going head to head trying to 'outdo' the other one re birth tales and things going wrong [shakes head emoticon].

I had wonderful mws for my ante-natal care - with the possible exception of one third time round who told me that my baby was going to be small (he was 10lb 4!) and seemed to be terrified by the whole pregnancy process and shouted at my DS#1 for not sitting quietly enough when she was examining me. All of the mws I met during my labours were OK....busy and stressed but caring and competent enough. Post-natal care was great. BUT I had three more or less problem free pregnancies and straight-forward deliveries. Maybe I'd feel different if things had gone wrong.

My midwife with dd was amazing. I was so totally inspired by her that I told dp baby was coming at 4pm when I knew she was coming by 3pm so that it was me and her (her and I?) because dp had been dreading having to watch and I really didn't mind. The delivery was incredibly special and I have tears in my eyes just typing about it. It really was one of the best moments of my life and I will never be able to thank her enough. I gave my dd my midwifes name as her middle name

I wonder if you could consider having an Independent Midwife? I'm quite aware of the expense but most are happy to spread or even sometimes reduce the cost and after all it may be truly worth it. Alternatively, consider hiring a birth doula. She can really be the 'buffer', the advocate, the friend, keep you informed, and also help prepare you for and get through the birth...
These options can seriously make a difference to your birth experience!

Whitechocolate, tell me about it. Not many people in the real world know anything much about my birth experience as I would hate to put people off. I haven't told a single one of my closest friends all about it, they know little bits and that there were complications but I wouldn't want to discuss the rest of it. Counselling was a massive help as I felt I could discuss it without guilt and fear of terrifying someone else!
In fact the only peron who knows all about is my dh as he was there all along.
I am really looking forward to having my second baby by a planned elective as hopefully (fingers crossed) it will be straight forward and relatively stress free which will allow me to just have my baby and then get on with the wonderful business of being a mummy, which after all, is what is all about - for me anyway.

Has anyone on this thread actually called the Birth Crisis line - i would like to but just wondered about anyones experiences of it. We celebrated my sons 2nd birthday yesterday, but I am still aware of feelings I have relating to his birth and think talking to someone might help. Thank you

mistersmum... call them!

Whitechocolate, for some women going on and on about a traumatic birth is part of the syndrome. You don't shut up about it because you live it over and over agin in your head - your brain just can't process the shock and fear. Like old men swapping war stories. Others like Redfraggle can't even face repeating it out loud.
It's also very hard when other women who didn't have such a hard time simply don't understand what the big deal is, makes you feel even more of a failure.

I had a nasty midwife for my 2nd pregnancy though my 1st and 3rd were OK. However, the midwife delivering our third son told me I wasn't in labour (my third pregnancy - I knew I was in labour) and then despite being told so many times that I laboured quickly, nearly let him fall out of me onto the floor because she didn't think he was coming .

I've had enormously varied experiences of midwives, and the duty midwives at the same hospital where Aloha went did not inspire confidence.

The ones who delivered both my babies, however, did.

RedFraggle, I am really very sorry you had such a shocking time with your first baby and I hope you have a much better experience awaiting you this time round .
One area of obs and gynae where midwives have REALLY taken the lead and which hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet, is in services to parents where the baby is stillborn. It was a midwife who helped SANDS write the Code of Good Practice for Health Professionals and it is usually midwives in hospitals who make the case for, and develop, excellent pastoral and clinical support for women pregnant again after their baby died.
In my hospital, I was lucky - the consultants went along with all of my bereavement midwife's innovations and suggestions. But she devised and implemented the policies - supported by the Head of Womens' Services, a very experienced midwife herself.
In three pregnancies and two electives, I've seen fabulous and not-so-great midwives. But I've seen enough of the former to feel personally, broadly confident of the profession, and very grateful to them.

I had a horrid midwife first time - just horrid.

However, the two midwives who helped me after my rubbish delivery were fab - they helped me breastfeed and I would have given up without them.

One gave me lots of hugs when I got baby blues which is just what I needed, and all helped me with such warmth and kindness when feeding was tricky (including one male midwife).

I think it is down to the individual midwife - some are great with people, others not so, as in all walks of life

I haven't read the whole thread, but I really fail to see how one can say they have no faith in "midwives". That's like saying you have no faith in "teachers" or "plumbers".

You cannot categorise an entire profession. Sure, there are good midwives and bad midwives. I've experienced both kinds. It's such an emotionally charged period in a woman's life and bad experiences can have far-reaching consequences.

But, IMO, you cannot write off an entire profession on the strength of your experience with a few individuals.

No, but when you can't be sure which you'll get (good or bad) on one of the most important days of your life, it does make you loose faith.

If we only had more mw like Mary Cronk, Sheila Kitzinger and Ina May Gaskin who believe in our abilities to birth our babies and didn't have hospital protocols and procedures that treat us like a number on a conveyor belt we wouldn't have this issue in quite the same way....

A British Independent Midwife:
www.marycronkmidwiferyservices.co.uk/

If only these American ladies were your MW:
www.sheilakitzinger.com/
www.inamay.com/
www.glorialemay.com/

As the HCPs have their hands tied by the system we now see why having a Doula can be so important. Whether you employ one privately or are fortunate enough to have a family member or friend able to support you and your partner, they can make such a difference to a woman who feels the need for continuous, caring, non-medical support.

Wish I'd had one....

And I sincerely hope that we start training more 'with woman' mw instead of obstetric nurses.