How to get ELCS for 'no medical reason' ? Please share your experience.

[Mumtobe1503]

Hello
As suggested by a member I have started a new thread.
Question is to all experienced ELCS and those who are going for it with no medical reasons.

I really want CS. I'm only 14 weeks.Please tell me what are the best arguments to get ELCS ? When to tell them ? I have my next meeting with consultant on 26.07.16 (I have PCOS that's why consultant)
I have my reasons but I don't think that would be enough .

The VB fans please save me the opinions on why CS is a 'bad' choice ...
It's my choice.
Experienced ladies ...What did work for you?
My next appointment in hospital is not till 27.06...
Is it possible to somehow chose the person performing CS ? Maybe you can recommend good contact for Lister hospital?
If I could I would have paid for private but I simply can't :/ I can cover the NHS difference in cost but not going all the way private.

I am starting to write my 'story ' to be ready for the consultation ;)
Obviously if I win the lottery I'm off to Portland Hospital ;)

Any tested suggestions are welcomed.

I am sure there is loads of future mums who are trying get ELCS like me.
Thank you.

Or say you will start a complaint based on the fact they're not following NICE guidance - which trusts are instructed to follow

Actually they aren't. Guidelines are just that. Guidelines. Not Rules.

Thus it usually comes down to interpretation and preference as to whether hospital trusts choose to follow them.

The trouble is that usually comes down to political pressure. If a board can say 'we will have no too posh to push here' and can play to public ignorance and pander to inadequacies in acknowledging mental health, they have an easy target.

I've seen NHS manager talk about this, and have no idea about the subject and believe in too posh to push.

Its a disgrace.

What women should get is the most appropriate care for their personal circumstances. Not blanket bans, as there may be cases where it is appropriate for ELCS on maternal request mental health grounds.

Oh and in the meantime, Trusts with blanket bans who refuse to take responsibility for mental health shift their budget concerns by forcing vulnerable women to travel to other Trusts where they will get 'appropriate care and support' (which as I say, may not necessarily ultimately be an ELCS) - as they are entitled to and have a right to under the NHS charter.

I apologise but it is something that makes me VERY VERY angry.

So many NHS Trusts have fuck all specialist maternity mental health provision. It does not exist. It politically is unimportant. It is not measured nor considered in outcomes by many hospitals.

I was extremely lucky and had a consultant who specialised in maternal mental health. She was excellent and I think it's deeply wrong that others don't have that available.

Mine's recorded as maternal choice too, which I'm fine with, because I made the choice that was best for us. I am a bit annoyed that it hasn't been recorded that I would have ended up with an EMCS anyway.

I think it's disgusting that "maternal choice" is looked at negatively. What is so wrong with a woman choosing what happens to her body, whatever the reasons?

Red I agree they are guidelines. However, if a trust faced a complaint on the basis they were not following Nice guidelines on elective C sections, I doubt very much they would still hold their ground.
i would both complain and ask to move hospital

The trouble with that, is it means that access to an ELCS is only available to those able to do that.

That means they stop people before they even thinking its an option, or don't feel able to challenge the might of a hospital.

That is not an equal and fair NHS.

Also for me, the stress of the process of trying to get an ELCS was one of my concerns from the outset and part of the reason I sort out getting an ELCS before even getting pregnant.

OP have you had major surgery before?

I'm not even pregnant yet (we've just decided to ttc) and I went to see my GP today as I've always known that the only way I will have children is by c-section - the fear is very real and is something I've been dealing with almost my whole life (putting off having children, convincing myself I didn't want them even though really do, nightmares etc). My GP was really helpful, listened to all my reasons, didn't make me feel stupid and had really helpful suggestions. She referred me on to CBT as regardless of which path I choose to take it would benefit me to deal with all of this anxiety (which I totally agree with). She also reassured me that no one will force me into a birth I don't want - I just need to work through my reasons rationally (which she understood) with midwives/consultants. She wrote up my anxiety issues around child birth in my notes for when the time comes and thanked me for raising it early. I realise I may have been lulled into a false sense of security, but (a) it was a relief to finally voice my fears and not be shot down and (b) I left feeling that I may actually be able to have a family (all being well) - a huge deal for me.

OP - thanks for posting this thread, I really hope you get the birth you need

MrsC16 I went down that route. I feared the false sense of security thing too. But they were true to their word with it.

This is the point. Feeling free to discuss the issue without judgement and as if your fears will be taken seriously and not dismissed has to have the crucial element of being allowed an ELCS on request. Without it there is no trust to build on. It is the very foundation of that trust.

I went ahead and had my ELCS - it was the right decision for me. However with the support I had I could well see others in a similar position choosing a different path in the end because they managed to build a level of trust I thought impossible from the start.

Being treated with respect and being taken seriously was step one of my journey. I am still on that battle with anxiety but its been a massively positive thing, that I geninuely don't think counselling would have helped with in the same way. I needed action or 'proof' to let me get over some of my fears.

I hope that your road is as smooth as mine in the end. I hope this offers some comfort though I know it will always be in the back of your mind as that's the very nature of the beast.

I disliked the midwife trust issue as well. I didn't like that they could go home before I'd given birth.

That's my fault not theirs by the way. Just the way the NHS is run.

I was made to feel small about asking for my ELCS by most of the professionals I came into contact with. My midwife worked part time as a private one so was more opened minded.I would have paid for it if I had to. That's the way I felt about it.
There is a great deal of strain on the NHS, certainly more now than when I had my boys but with the litigation issue when a woman has asked for one and then being refused, it puts hospitals in a difficult position

People have been so fucking harsh on this thread

I work for the NHS, I have seen people waste funds, I absolutely do not see this as grounds to refuse a woman the procedure that ensures she brings her baby into the world in a way that she choses.

No other thing do we force people to go through something so painful and potentially traumatic. Just because birth is natural and most people chose to get pregnant doesn't mean we shouldn't help women to minimise it by making choices they think will help them.

RedToothBrush your posts are fantastic

Perfectly said Grays

Thanks very much RedToothBrush - your experience is very reassuring!

redtoothbrush

Superb posts. Thank you.

OP, ignore the haters. It is your choice and yours alone how you proceed. Simply citing the wish to avoid an emergency c-section is a reason you could state.

I am shocked by the level of misogyny towards the beginning of this thread. Such sneering attitudes about a woman daring to have a preference over her own birth. Redtoothbrush - as ever - puts forward an excellent FACT BASED case for a woman's right to choose.

My own ELCS was maternal request and was wonderful. Ds born to my favourite song, calm and joyful atmosphere. He breastfed straight away and we're still BF six months down the line so it certainly didn't affect that. Recovery was great too - I walked three miles to the pub and back on day seven, although I appreciate that some find it harder going (in the same way that not all women who have VBs are cooking three course meals that afternoon...).

A very close friend of mine is about to have her second baby. Her first was an EMCS, which she was devastated about as she really wanted a natural birth. Despite this, she was completely supportive of my decision to request an ELCS, despite it being the absolute last thing she would have wanted for herself. Likewise I am backing her in her decision to try for a HBAC this time around, despite it being the absolute last thing that I would want for myself. It's because we both recognise that what is right for one person isn't necessarily right for everyone; that one person's ideal birth is someone else's nightmare. Women deserve the right to choose and I wish you the best of luck with your ELCS, OP.

Op just be aware, if you are planning a large family, that multiple c secs increases your risk of placenta accreta and percreta. I personally know 2 women affected by percreta- where the placenta grows through the uterus and into other organs eg bowel, bladder. One was on 3rd c sec, she didn't make it. Other was on 4th. She survived after emergency hysterectomy but is still having operations now to try to sort out her organs. Her daughter is almost 5 now.
www.hopeforaccreta.org/

Red I have seen you post many times on threads about ELCS before and your posts are wonderful. You are spot on all of the time. I have had two ELCS due to severe tokophobia- again I strongly dispute the reason being recorded as 'maternal request'- it's a recognised phobia, a mental health issue, so as valid as any other medical reason although my personal view is that in 2016 a woman should be able to choose exactly how she gives birth for whatever reason and shouldn't have to justify it to anyone, particularly the sort of philistines who believe you should have to be at deaths door before you are rushed off to theatre for a CS.

I had cause to complain about some aspects of my antenatal care prior to my second ELCS; I did so after the birth, and mentioned in my complaint that I disagreed with the reason for my ELCS being recorded as 'maternal request'. I was fobbed off by my hospital, apparently this is just in line with NICE reccomendations to 'ensure there is consistent information reported across the U.K.'. I find they just aren't willing to engage at all really. I love the NHS, have endless respect for the wonderful people working within it. But I find that like many public institutions they are very unwilling to engage with the public who aren't complaining to be nasty, but to help improve things. Hey ho, that's my experiences anyway! 😄

I was fobbed off by my hospital, apparently this is just in line with NICE reccomendations to 'ensure there is consistent information reported across the U.K.'

I raised it with Baroness Cumberland on MN after the maternity review and got no where. She didn't even understand the problem, which I found worrying itself.

It troubles me, as there is a real danger in splitting the way money is allocated, between maternity and mental health if an ELCS for mental health reasons can't be done as there is no classification for it, how can you get the funding from the mental health pot of money for it??

This issue needs greater awareness. I am not sure how to go about doing that, as I fear the media due to their track record on the subject being so dubious.

I do worry this will be a way to stop ELCS for mental health by the back door unless it is addressed though.

If you want an ELCS you can have one

If ONLY that WERE true

Take a copy of NICE guidelines, they say you're allowed to choose.

No you are not 'allowed to choose'.

Its a myth.

The NICE guidelines are only guidelines which do not have to be adhered to. Not all hospitals are following the guidelines. Some are actively refusing to.

My physio who had ELCS told me that, evidently Mis informed. Thanks red

I'd ask here

www.skepticalob.com

Plenty of medics with lots of stats, studies and analysis at their fingertips. Mostly American so it's unlikely they can give you specifics with regards to the British system, but you are unlikely to have to field quite a lot of questions about your choice as opposed to the information you asked for.