Caesarian or Natural after a caesarian birth?

[Zak]

I had an emergency c-section for my first baby. I was in labour for 22 hours,was continually monitored and unable to move around duing contractions. I am now quite scared to have a second baby due to my experience first time around. The hospital should have detected that your baby was breach from your scans and also if it was a large baby. What was the birth weight? I think sometimes we should stick with our own instincts and do what we feel is right for us. Obviously you should listen to your medical advice but if you are not happy, don't be afaid to ask for a 2nd opinion.

just seen on another topic that you are pregnant Twiglett. Congratulations. Have posted a question asking what Clomid is. More info please!

Elective C Section is an option. If I do end up having one ( if I am lucky enough to conceive again) then I can only hope that because it will avoid me having a long and tiring labour that it will not wipe me out as it did the first time and lead to all those other complications. Can't get used to the idea of knowing precisely when the baby will be born and the notion of 'checking in' having op then checking out with new babe in arms!

Hi Padme...
I am a doula... read this to know more about doulas the Doula UK association website or my website

But doulas do not have to fit within the NHS system - they do NOT belong to the NHS, we are all independent... we work for the parents - basically we are birth partners.
And all the medical studies (15) that have been done show a more positive outcome of birth (i.e. less sections, less epidurals, less instrumental deliveries, less PND and higher BF rates!)
Most of us work with many women wanting a VBAC. For what it's worth I think your chances of a VBAC are quite high from what you write. A doula would give you emotional and practical support dring pregnancy - especially if you ahve to hear all these scare stories !

I do not know enough about independent MW to asnwer your question.

Price wise there is also a MAJOR difference. Birth doulas charge between £250 and 500... IMW charge from £2500 to much more.

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was persuaded to try for VBAC by my consultant and got to 42 weeks again with dd2 - but had another emergency - crash, written in the notes - because my BP/pulse dropped, so did baby's and she was out 15 mins later, me under a general anaesthetic. in some ways I wish I'd gone for an elective, following first c/s (got to 8cm, foetal distress & into calmish emergency section, dd was absolutely fine) but that's the way it goes. for me, it's about having a baby not a birth. and some of the vaginal deliveries I've heard about recently would make your hair curl (needing surgery to repair stitching of extensive tearing, still 'not right' down there up to a couple of years later.

Bundle - equally you have bad ceasarean experiences... read Marina's 2 ceasareans...

pupuce, I don't feel my caesarean experiences were bad at all, I feel lucky to be alive and have two healthy girls .
I felt well-looked after by staff and included in decision-making which I felt they weighed up risks to me/baby in a fair way. felt confident going into 2nd birth that I wouldn't be having a long labour AND a caesarean (only allowed to go 4-6 hrs because of risk of rupture) which was my worst case scenario. knowing what made me feel better with dd1 - getting up, having shower, getting rid of catheter early etc - helped recovery 2nd time. I suppose having an operation when you're going through birth - itself a tiring and possibly traumatic event - could prove too much for some but I just let things go as far as I thought was safe for us both.
must read Marina's thread, been thinking about her lots and read of Isabelle's arrival.

Thanks for info Pupuce. The service offered by a Doula looks just what I need. I am terrified of VBAC but really want to try. I need to try because , I was so mentally traumatised by emergency C Section and disaster that followed (nightmare breastfeeding etc). I know I can do it. Ds was crowning when it all went wrong. I sometimes wonder if I was left to push just a bit longer I could have got him out myself. I suppose the medical staff have to draw the line somewhere and make the decisions and ultimately I will do what is best for the baby.

Could rant on about what happened but feel that 10 and half months down the line I should have put it all behind me. It is good to be able to recount what happened on Mumsnet. Friends and family must surely be bored by it and after all, ds is a triumph - fantastically healthy, brilliant boy - so why go on about his tricky birth? Anyone else feel similar?

Bundle, - Despite what I say, ultimately it is about having the baby, not the birth. I just find it hard to be philosophical sometimes. What I wish for is a birth where I am not rendered a Zombie for 6 weeks afterwards because of all the drugs I am having to take for the pain and various infections etc etc I just hope that it can't be that bad again!

Padme, I hope whatever happens that you're not left feeling like a zombie. I recovered much more quickly this time, even though (or perhaps because) I was quite high on morphine for a couple of days because of pain. if you do have a section, say yes to pain relief even when you don't feel like it, my consultant advised that and it proved priceless because if you don't, the nurses have disappeared and are too busy when you might really need it. although I was v careful re: lifting etc for 6 weeks, I felt much fitter this time.
oops - dd2 calling!

Sorry Bundle I meant there are plenty of people who have had bad ceasarean experiences (like Marina) and quite a few who also had bad vaginal experiences. Hence doulas can be a good solution.

Padme - if you contact me off line (see my website below) I am happy to put you in touch with some doulas... I've done this for 3 mumsnetters - one had her first baby 1 month ago at home with doula - as I understand it, it was a very easy and good birth... the other 2 are still pregnant.

I have had 3 sections and 3 vaginal deliveries..(2 vbacs )..and I have to say...I would go with a vaginal delivery EVERY time..I am planning another baby in about 18 months or so..hopefully..and Will be having a vbac after 3 sections ...at home!...The pain of childbirth is nothing compared to the pain of seeinf my youingest son is special care because of another unmeccesary section...The WHO recommends a c. section rate of no more than 10%...At present in the uk it is 22%..and rising...

I've just found reading these postings absolutely fascinating. I had an emergency c-section with dd1 19 months ago. I had gone through 5 days of 'false labour' before my waters broke. I then got to 8cm very quickly and with remarkably little pain then nothing happened. Apparantly I had an anterior lip, and dd was back to back with her head in such a position that she wasn't going to budge. By the end the contractions were so weak that a couple of deep breaths was all I needed to get through each one. I had no concerns about the c-section which was quick, painless and as far as I recall, the recovery was fairly easy once I had the feeling back in my legs. I went to see the consultant today to discuss the delivery options for no2 due in 7 weeks. He was perfectly happy for me to have another section if that was what I wanted, but also felt fine about opting for a natural birth. He said that the first one may have failed to progress either because I was just so tired after days of labour, and that was unlikely to re-occur with a second pregnancy. If the problem was the anterior lip and that baby was back-to-back then that may re-occur (No2 is currently back-to-back) in which case they wouldn't let me struggle on for a few hours before going for a section again. I am now very muddled as to what to do. My midwife said to write a list of the pros and cons of each, but I thought that I'd ask for your opinions too so I get views that I hadn't thought of.

Padme - I had an emergency c-section after getting to fully dilated in the birthing pool without any drugs after 35 hours. Little blighter would not come out - i was totally traumatised by the whole experience.

I was like you determined to have a natural birth second time and listened happily to the stories of quicker second births. Not so with me, it was just as long - I got stuck at 4cms in the hospital and suddenly got really scared that I would have to have another c-section. I think my memories of last time made me more stressed and impeded my labour.

However, luckily I had a brilliant irish midwife, totally by chance never met her before. I cried my eyes out and she helped me make the decision to have an epidural and get me mobile ( as much as you can be ). Recieving my son on my chest was the most joyous experience of my life and I would highly recommend giving it a go.

In retrospect i am not sure what I would have done if I had to have had another emergency c-section, it was very close to happening again. So if this is something that you want to do - GET HELP, a doula as Pupuce suggests.

Is there anything I can do to prepare for childbirth that would reduce the risk of a serious tear (my real fear)?

Many things but there is no guarantee - in anything....

You can try perineal massage
You can ask your MW or birth partner to put a warm cloth on your perineum when baby is crowning
Water birth are well known to prevent serious damage as it softens the tissues
No extreme pushing - certainly if this is NOT a first vaginal birth
And panting (as MW would advise) when head is out as a lot of tearing comes from babies coming too fast and shhoulder tearing the perineum.

This article might interest anyone wanting a VBAC or going for a first vaginal birth

Jennyb - I have just looked at your message. I had my daughter 10.5 years ago by emergency c-section after 62 hour labour (waters having broken 9 days before). Daughter was 3.9kgs (a week early). I couldn't talk about the experience it was so awful- I needed antibiotics when waters broke (27/2)for heart murmur eventually got them on the way to theatre (8/3)! Pushing for 4 hours (dilated 8cm). Doctor who delivered was telling the midwives off as he was preparing me for csection (after deciding not to do forceps). I had a meeting with consultant and other senior hospital staff about 6 months after incident and had an official apology addressing 4 or 5 areas where they failed me. This helped enormously in my recovery as I knew this would not happen again. I went on to have my son 3.5 years later by elective csection (really wanted v delivery but at 29 weeks measuring 34cms. He was delivered 3 weeks early at 4kgs by elective csection. BUPA kindly picked up the bill as csection was required for medical reasons (ie. no way it was coming out naturally) and I met the whole team the week before delivery. Much better all round in as much as you mentally prepare yourself for it. The anaesthetist was excellent talking me through the op (bit too much detail some of the time like "we've just popped your womb back in".
My partner is squeamish so my pal came along in case he passed out. She was absolutely excellent.

Hope you enjoy the birth and I'm sure you'll make the right decision.

Aaagh - I feel such a clot. didn't look at the year the message was posted just saw October 18th!!!!!

Your child must be starting school soon

I'm not sure if I've correctly interpreted the tone of this thread but here's my twopence worth, hope it's appropriate.

2 C-sections is hard going on you, and the only good thing about it is your baby comes out looking lovely agai nand you stil have the down-belows of a 17 year old..It's all a bit unspeakable but will be manageable if your surgical team treat you like a human and communicate with you. By which I mean, even though you know what to expect it is still a major op and physical ordeal and you should be treated with sensitivity. Can you guess that I've had 2 and the first was OK and the second was awful because of the attitude or rudeness of the surgical team.

I've got a document to give to my consultant tomorrow highlighting the differneces between my first emergency C and the second . The Birth Crisis Network, run by Sheila Kitzenger, check out her website for details, talked me through feeling like a vulnerable victim and in to a woman with valuable points to raise at the hospital so they could improve their practice.

Jampot - after my 2nd emergency six weeks ago ( I too have big chunky babies and don't fully dilate). I too have learnt NEVER ask the antesthaetist what's going on. " they've got your womb out' is not what you want to hear is it?

Here's some new research linking stillbirths to CS, which I thought people might be interested to know about.

Not having a go at you suedonim (you are only the messenger) ... but when I read this I thought 'AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRrGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH' ... just another thing for me to put on my list of worries now that I have 9 weeks to go (aiming for a VBAC)

I hate 'studies' like this ... it's like the formula fed babies are more likely to be obese and have diabetes ... well some of us can't help having C-Sections and some of us have to feed our babies formula ...

Aw, sorry, Ghosty, don't be like that please come back. I guess it's a case of one (wo)man's meat is another man's poison - I think life's one big risk anyway.

Here's some smileys to cheer you up.

Oh, look, some of them are hugging each other - how cute! Really must go to beddybyes now, it's 2am.

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According the article, the actual extra risk is less than one in 1,000. It's very rare anyway. Awful and sad but rare.

Nice smilies!

i agree with twigglet,think this is def to coincide with the anti c sect move at the mo.i just ignore this sort of info-dont mean i put my head in the sand-just that i would prefer bto find out all the unbiased facts myself,not just the headline grabbing stuff.i had a stillborn baby,a vaginal birth at 39 weeks,and then nearly 4 yrs later an emergancy c sect to deliver my ds,i know which i preferred.i was denied a planned c sect by my enlightened nhs trust,i explained that the thought of a "natural"birth completely terrified and freaked me out,i didnt want one,my comm midwife supported me in this but consultants know best,eh?!!sorry,thats all off the point,but i get cross at how women who want to choose a planned c sect are treated and portrayed.