Too many babies passing away

[Rose58]

Is it just because we are pregnsnt of have you heard really shocking stories about babies dying during childbirth or being still born? 2 babies in my area died recently due to being starved oxygen at birth. Another had a tough time and was very ill and a forth still born. What's going on? I am petrified!!

I know of seven people in my life who had stillborns. Two of them were years ago when I was a kid granted but there has been 5 over the past 3 years. One of them was twin girls. I was almost sick, I was pregnant when I got the text saying they were born sleeping and I couldn't sleep for days thinking about it. It's nature though and sometimes despite all the medical advances in the world there's nothing that can be done

Oh, so didn't need to read this. Few weeks to go for me now :(

Sorry Focus. I'm petrified of these stories but they feel too close to home!!

Sadly, stillbirth is a lot more common than people realise.more so than things we worry about like cot death.

If you want to feel you are doing something, look at count the kicks.

I think when something is happening to you, you are more likely to pay attention to any and every story you hear.

When I was pregnant was DC1, I didn't hear anything bad. No one had difficult decisions to make, no one was in hospital lots, no one had babies born with disabilities or illnesses, no one was struggling to conceive or miscarrying.

Now everyone is having DC2, it seems that every pregnancy has some sort of issue.

I suspect its an issue of attention. I only met people during DC1's pregnancy when we were all well advanced in our pregnancies and things were going well. Now I know people right from the start, and hear more 'bad' stories.

There's nothing "going on", as far as I am aware. But you pay attention to certain things at certain times, and it makes can make things seem worse.

My dd was stillborn on the 12th of march. There were three other babies before her in my hospital alone that month. So goodness knows how many in total. When I gave birth to her the bereavement midwife came to give us a talk about our options and she said 'it is more common than you think' before giving me the above statistic. If fact we heard that a lot, that it is more common than you think. I am pregnant again and reading a lot to prepare myself. I can't find anything in books other than a tiny paragraph saying it is very rare and if it does happen to you your care providers will advise you. But I think they are doing us an injustice by keeping it all hush hush. When it happens to you the shock is hell. Actually if we were all a bit more aware about how common it was, and of the procedures and choices involved, we might all feel a little less she'll shocked.

So sorry to hear that, badgers :(

And I agree with you - I think the pendulum has swung a little too far in the 'birth is nothing to be afraid of/earth mother/breathe the baby out with wind chimes and whale music' direction.

Birth is inherently risky - probably the most physical risk the average western woman will be in over the course of her life. I found the antenatal classes just ignored this - no mention at all of c sections in my class! None!
I'd much rather hear an honest assessment of risk plus the interventions/precautions put in place to deal with them.

For example "although the majority of women manage without intervention, X percent do need instrumental help. If you are one of these, this is how it works.."

I'm not saying we should all be terrified of birth, but an honest, clear eyed look at the risk levels involved is the minimum I expect. Knowledge is power, and we are adults. Too many of my friends have been sold this "your body is designed for it" lie (it isn't, we are a product of evolution, not design) and have been left genuinely traumatised by pain, interventions and injuries.

You are right. I didn't even think of it in terms of trauma over intervention, but you are so right. If we were all prepared that there is a chance that intervention will be needed then I imagine there would not be this whole devastation that many women feel over 'failing at birth'. Sure we would all love it to be the ideal, but when it isn't the current birthing climate sets us up to fail.

Sands are throwing a lot of money into research on stillbirth. We have one of the highest rates in the modern/western world.

I guess my story is different;dd2 was very ill and we opted for a tfmr. I guess strictly speaking that doesn't count as a stillbirth. The effects are still very similar though.

I know no one wants to scare pregnant ladies but it is way more common (if you put together stillbirth and chromosomal abnormalities together) than I ever imagined.

I'm really open about my dd2 and as a result I have come across so many women who have suffered from late loss and chromosomal issues.

there seems to be more focus in the media at the moment as the 'all natural' movement has gained momentum, esp via bloggers, facebook, etc. there's also been a rise in home birth attempts in recent years, plus a rise in mothers with concomitant illnesses like diabetes, plus the ever-snowballing cuts to NHS services - all of which will affect this on a population level. not necessarily relevant to any one individual though, which is some comfort.

ultimately it comes down to real information and understanding of the stats - without 'spin' from either side. There are risks, thankfully here they are very low whatever the setting, so no need to be afraid, but women should be offered the 'going in eyes wide open' approach.
I'm a medical scientist by training, now a writer, and have edited obstetrics textbooks. I'm expecting my first imminently, and to me my detailed knowledge helps me feel in control, and to mentally prepare for anything. The idea that 'interventions' are in themselves a 'risk' seems bizarre to me, since things are not done without a medical indication (see - NHS cuts!) and it's impossible to tell except in hindsight which were 'necessary' or not. I don't relish the idea of any of it, but the 'risk' doesn't come into it when compared to any avoidable risk to the baby....
and of course homebirth is 'less likely to have interventions' because they are simply not available at home!
I also don't understand why we are asked to take such great care over food, car seats, technology etc then are told that the one riskiest event in the baby's life (stats - the likelihood of mortality on the day of birth is not repeated until aged 85!) can be 'left to nature'...it's sad that some mums are being set up for guilt/disappointment by the very care providers they should be able trust completely. Sure, experience is very important (even though I know I have no say in it ultimately, I think about how I'd like things to go!) but not at any cost.

Sadly stillbirth is actually common. My first 2 boys died shortly before birth. It's always been the case but people are starting to talk about it more now. It's hopefully becoming less of a taboo. It's attitudes like focus'(sorry, I do totally understand) I.e I don't want to hear about it that makes it difficult for those who have been through the experience to speak out. We all need to talk about it.

We do neec to talk about it. I wonder if it really was a perceived risk, we would be much more on the ball and actually rates would drop. I have been stunned to find out how common it is. Nannyplum I'm so sorry for your two precious Angels

The national rate in the UK is 17 babies either stillborn or neonatal death per day.

Yes childbirth is risky for the mum and baby, knowledge is power.

The charity MAMA is doing amazing work in this area as the rate is lower in other economically similar countries.

www.mamaacademy.org.uk/

3 little badgers. You too.

I think many people find hearing about stillbirth and terminations for medical reasons very difficult. I've been very open about dd2 but have been met with many a strange look and embarrassed silence.

I think all types of pregnancy loss and infant death need to be spoken about more often, that way we are free to remember and speak about our babies and children in a way we would like to.

Kitty and 3Little Badgers

Nannyplum

I've spent the past few days reading up accounts of stillbirth. I was aware, in a sense, and hence very vigilant about movement, but yes, I've spent a huge amount of time reading research, personal accounts and experiences of stillbirth above and beyond that, over the past week or so.

My comment wasn't so much an "attitude" as it was a (perhaps understandable) reaction of a person late in pregnancy. It is incredibly hard to convey tone online, and (i specialise in this aspect of human communicative interactions) often tone is misunderstood very widely when words are read written, not spoken. So if you'd heard me say what you read me say, you'd see a scared face, momentarily rocked off her feet given the specific circs of being late pregnant. Not a rational face, making an intellectual claim that the topic not be spoken about, or judging the speaking of it. That would be awful.

My cousin lost her baby at my stage last year. It was horrifying. Their 9 year old was waiting for baby brother to come home. A different baby brother has indeed come home in 14 months since then, and brought much love and light, but the parents' horror will never be undone. I frantically wait to feel movement all the time.

My comment was not an attitude. It was a (perhaps understandable) knee jerk emotional explanation of a first time mum to be in late pregnancy.

Many unmumsnetty hugs to those who have experienced what I cannot imagine.

Our stillbirth rate is a national disgrace. It's worse than comparable countries.

Why is it so high?

Yes, why is it so high?

So sorry to those who have experienced stillbirth first-hand.

Before I was pregnant, a good friend at work suffered a stillbirth at 7.5 months, so I have always been aware that there is a big risk, and I am happy when baby comes out, as I feel that I have more control. I am currently 29 weeks pregnant with my third, and I do want to drill home to the mums (I don't though as a number are already anxious, and I can't find the words) on my antenatal group that stillbirth is still a worryingly large risk. Thankfully they do seem to be very aware of count the kicks etc, and getting it checked out when there is a reduction in movement.

I couldn't tell my older children (only 4 and 2 so thankfully they were fairly oblivious to my increasing size!) about the new baby until after the 20 week scan, and even now I do get twitchy when they are really excited about baby coming, but I figure that excitement doesn't make the risk any higher...

And don't know why it is so high either... My friend just had a one off blood clot, with no medical issues. She was prescribed aspirin for later pregnancies...

But this is the terrifying thing with the count the kicks. I know it is helping but when I had my follow up appointment with the consultant, after my baby died, I got upset saying I don't know when exactly she had died (I could still feel movements). The consultant said that they have six minutes from the baby's last kick to get the baby out without risk to the baby in terms of brain damage or death. So if you are doing what you are supposed to do and focus for an hour on movements how is that going to help? We need Doppler scans. I had my first two in Turkey. Not as a developed country right as the UK And I had monthly scans right the way through and in the last few weeks appointments every three days to check the baby and then once I went over due Doppler scans every three days. I was not a high risk pregnancy.

My understanding is that in other countries they scan the placenta several times later in pregnancy. Counting the kicks is about there often being a change in the type of movements leading up to a baby dying in utero it's rarely that sudden that all is well and then 6 hours later it's too late.

The charity MAMA is helping with promoting everything that can affect stillbirth risk so certainly worth reading around their site.