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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Feeling traumatised by not getting the pain relief i asked for, anyone else

95 replies

Naty1 · 18/07/2015 19:51

Had dc2 friday, and been feeling upset about not getting the epidural i asked for (3hrs before delivery)
I had it clearly on birth plan.
I asked for it then said pethidine while waiting and ended up with g&a too.
Mw went off to request epi and said its a busy night theyll be there when they can.
I clearly couldnt cope with what i had and remember begging. Saying i want it now.
I just shut down and willed the contractions to stop.
Was saying the baby was stuck (as dc1 was )
But i think what has triggered my anger/ upset is reading my birth notes. My birth plan isnt there and on the computerized printout as its not a question- no mention of my requests or why it wasnt done.
It feels like they want people to be too late for pain relief.so keen to send home, refusal to check dilation.
Not caring how it feel afterwards to be ignored, patronised 'havent you done well with no pain relief.'
I did have epi with dc1 back to back, stuck at 2cm, sytocin, failed ventuose and forceps, episiotomy.
But i think the issues were more to do with being back to back.
It just annoys me the illusion of choice but if your choice isnt natural you are being judged. Made to go on a bit longer until its suddenly too late.

OP posts:
UrethraFranklin1 · 19/07/2015 20:44

Fine no guarantees of availability but then accept the job of mw May become redundant to an extent as people opt for elcs

You won't be able to do that, there aren't enough surgeons and theatres to give everyone a section, not to mention either the huge cost of that, nor the fact that if it isnt medically indicated, you shouldnt be able to have one (drs take an oath not to operate on people unnecessarily!)

PatsyNoPasta · 19/07/2015 21:11

You won't be able to do that, there aren't enough surgeons and theatres to give everyone a section, not to mention either the huge cost of that, nor the fact that if it isnt medically indicated, you shouldnt be able to have one (drs take an oath not to operate on people unnecessarily!)

I thought that MW are all about empowerment and choice for the women in their care. I believe the NICE guidelines suggest that a woman may opt for a section.

UrethraFranklin1 · 19/07/2015 21:21

The NICE guidelines can say what they like, it isn't remotely possible for anyone and everyone to have section. Unless they want to do them themselves?

Wantsunshine · 19/07/2015 22:19

Sounds like we should campaign for anithetists rather than more midwives there are so many stories like this.

TendonQueen · 19/07/2015 22:29

Wow, it doesn't take long for the medical professionals to put us in our place, does it? Of course no one is 'denied' pain relief, not when they can be fobbed off or guilt tripped instead. The replies here are very telling: no sense that the OP made a request that was reasonable, instead we're all supposed to be grateful for whatever we get. There are clearly quite a few women who don't feel that midwives are advocates for them. What should they do, shut up and go away?

sanfairyanne · 19/07/2015 22:39

some horrible 'put up and shut up' attitudes on here. are we really aiming for second world care here, pain relief if you can afford it, otherwise suck it up??
is this all part of the new austerity hairshirt self flaggelation attitude in the uk?

Corabell · 19/07/2015 23:02

The midwives on this thread are demonstrating the very attitude that women encounter and are traumatised by. Yes, anesthetists are in emergency cases and can't be there when a woman needs them but to minimise a woman's trauma by saying "well done, no pain relief" when the woman has in fact begged for pain relief is beyond cruel.

How dare you state to the OP that it's a shame that the OP focuses on this aspect of her birth and not her baby. How dare you. Don't you think she would rather only focus on her baby and not have to think about this?

I was induced and when they introduced the drip and I laboured on gas and air for hours before I begged for an epidural. The time it took to get an anesthetist was quite long and it was the most awful experience. Intellectually I understand why it took so long but that doesn't mean I don't feel mentally and emotionally scarred by it.

Ashwinder · 19/07/2015 23:10

Couldn't agree more Corabell.

Whatabout · 19/07/2015 23:10

My midwives refused to request an anaesthetist even though I requested multiple times. I was in established labour, had a bad reaction to gas and air and unable to change position for pain management. I would certainly term that as refusing analgesia.

The change of shift brought me a midwife that immediately put the call in, there was then a short wait. Unless the request is made by the "advocate" your request isn't known.

UrethraFranklin1 · 19/07/2015 23:14

It's not a "put up and shut up" attitude its a "realise that birth is not always something you can control" attitude. And also realise that the nhs is not something you can control. If there is no anaesthetist available then there isn't one, and complaining that it was purposefully withheld from you is untrue and unhelpful.

The myth that you can have the exact birth you want is damaging to women. High expectations lead to disappointment and upset.

TendonQueen · 19/07/2015 23:28

How can you say someone's complaint is 'untrue' given what's been posted above about situations where the woman's request has not been put through?

PatsyNoPasta · 19/07/2015 23:39

My multiple requests begging for an epidural was ignored. My DH was there. He heard my screams. My notes however showed that I refused pain relief and I coped really well. All lies. I have had issues with MW since then. I'm a HCP and I can't believe how my pleas for pain relief were ignored and my notes a complete fabrication - written up after I gave birth I might add. If I treated my patients this way I would expect to be sacked.

sanfairyanne · 19/07/2015 23:41

or maybe high expectations lead to complaints leads to better analgesics next time//for women in the future

Naty1 · 20/07/2015 00:42

But then you can argue that about anything and could just be poor staff management, and if i cant say for sure the anaesthetist was busy the whole time, neither can you.
So despite there being several posters on here saying the same thing - it doesnt happen or if it does its because the nhs cant cope.
And again we should be grateful.
The nice guidelines also say you can have anaesthesia even for a long latent phase (which i did first time) but you wouldnt believe that for the effort it took to get it.
I think it depends on what you didnt get, so if it was say the water birth you wanted, well clearly going into that you know howmany pools the place has and if all are in use then unlucky, but there are then alternatives like analgesia.
Of course im grateful baby was born safely after a yr of ivf. But really thats irrelevant, safe delivery of the baby is minimum.
Thing is not everyone would opt for CS because it doesnt hurt everyone as much, we have different size babies, pelvis, hormonal issues (like hypothyroidism which can cause back to back) family history of breech. And you dont know till you try. But logically why would i risk the same thing happening?
But i do resent being told you are coping - that is BS you are not in someone elses body
For example ive not had any afterpains at all, though its supposed to hurt, are these people just making a fuss? They must be as its not my experience, but wait its not my body.
Or should i dismiss people with HG because i wasnt even nauseous, maybe they need to suck it up and think of the baby. Like i must have done, so arent i amazing, but really its no effort as i didnt feel ill.
Everyones experience of labour is going to be different, why arent my choices just as valid, because it costs money, if id wanted a pain relief free choice i would have gone to a mlu.

Its more damaging to deny people the pain relief they need.
Urethra- you make it sound like its asking a ridiculous amount to be able to get an anesthetist to spend 30min with you out of a 3hr window.
Im aware the nhs is in a state. They couldnt even get me on the ward -do i care about that , no, they couldnt get the paed to do a first day check for like 30hrs so we went to nicu instead, yes i can see they are busy.
Okay so you go tell people say on this childbirth section your opinion, that they should be grateful if they can get an epi, as even if you are screaming, begging for it, have it on your birth plan, asked for it as soon as you could, they may be too busy to see you (even in a 3-4hr window), but its ok as you should know this is the nhs they are busy you couldnt possibly think they could page someone else .
Maybe the hospital.leaflet should say epidural (but only if we arent busy in a CS/EMCS)
I think its damaging to tell people its pain free, you can give birth at home, you should be able to cope with g&a, when noone knows how that person will feel, but obviously it suits some people.
I guess being discharged with a well done rather than an apology for failing me and an explanation of what happened is really not what i wanted.
And i feel angry that its probably happening to someone else right now, they go in trusting the hospital, come out mis-trusting them and very angry for having their pain minimised.
I now wish i had called my mum in to advocate for me as they did listen to her for dc1
But i , wrongly thought once i was 5cm i would get the epi.
Oh well i see mw tomorrow, think i might make a compliant.
Not that i expect anything from it

OP posts:
chefcarl · 20/07/2015 00:42

jesus, uretha you sound very put up and shut up to me. i despair of your comment re high expectations.

Naty, so sorry you had such a tough time. dreadful that your experience is considered acceptable by some posters.

olympicsrock · 20/07/2015 01:45

I think you should put a complaint in actually. I am a HCP and find it completely unacceptable that in 3 hours an anaesthetist was not available. The trust provision is inadequate your needs were not met you had poor care. I am bloody lucky. With DC 1 prior to induction but after 24 hours of non productive contractions the consultant anaesthetist came to see me before they started to give me an epidural as she knew I would need it. This time I am having elcs as I cannot risk the horror of that pain.
Sorry to the mw on here but the OP has not misunderstood. Her notes are inaccurate and it is not her problem that resourcing was so poor.

Midwifeoncall · 20/07/2015 03:39

And I wonder who would care for you after your elective c-section? Look after the babies if they were poorly, support you to feed your baby, give your antibiotics when you develop an infection in your wound, help you to walk again, have a shower after you have regained the feeling in your legs? I doubt it would be your anaesthetist or your surgeon. I hope your recovering well now. Perhaps speak with your Drs for a debrief, it may answer some questions for you.

VashtaNerada · 20/07/2015 05:00

Does anyone know how long hospital notes are kept for? And does seeing them actually help you deal with it or just make things worse? I think if my notes say I refused pain relief when in reality I cried and begged for anything they could give me, I'd probably just feel worse.

Fairylea · 20/07/2015 06:19

Some awful comments on here! Op I'm so sorry about your experience.

I had a similar experience having my first child. It was so traumatic that for my second 7 years later I fought for an elcs as there was no way they could guarantee I would get an epidural and that was the only way I could guarantee pain relief. I do know accidents etc happen - in fact my elcs wasn't straight forward after all, I was found to have undiagnosed placenta previa and lost nearly 3 litres of blood so I was in the operating theatre a very long time indeed so probably responsible myself for stopping some women having an epidural ! I think sometimes it is impossible to get an epidural for those kinds of reasons but no one should be made to feel wrong for asking for one or that anyone is telling them to "put up and shut up".

I find it totally bizarre that in a world where women wouldn't have a tooth pulled without anaesthetic they are expected to pop a baby out of their vagina without so much as a paracetamol. ....!

ArtichokeTagine · 20/07/2015 06:38

I had a similar experience to OP when I had my third. The Mw point blank refused to check for dilation until I'd been contracting for two hours (induction), without confirmation of dilation she could not order epidural. It was my third birth, I knew things were progressing quickly, I was literally begging to be checked so I could access pain relief and she just kept saying "in x minutes, calm down." By the time she deigned to check
I was nine centimetres and it was too late.

I had flashbacks to the pain for weeks afterwards. I could not believe the Mw had denied me any progress checks, it was so clear what her agenda was. After the birth she kept saying "that was amazing, you did it without any pain relief at all". It did not feel amazing to me, it felt inhuman.

Rosa · 20/07/2015 06:47

Maybe there were other situations in the hospital where there were people with greater needs ( life saving ) and the medical staff were attending to them. I know givng birth can be traumatic and it sounds as if after your first you were obviously worried but if you and your baby are healthy - be thankful and enjoy him/her.

Minionkeeper · 20/07/2015 06:54

I can see how an anesthetist can be tied up for 3 hours.

With ds i tore. Badly.

The ward wad busy - i got the last bed.
Post delivery i was taken into theatre to be stitched. There was only one theatre and one theatre team. Then an emcs came in. She needed the theatre more than me obviously so i was bumped out of theatre into a spare room which was converted to a theatre for me. The anesthetist, having administered the epidural before we were moved had to stay with me... for 2 hours whilst the theatre was contructed and the surgery done. The emcs was done by another theatre team that had to be paged from elsewhere in the hospital.

I can't imagine anyone got elective anything that afternoon.

I'm sorry that you didn't get what you wanted though.

paxtecum · 20/07/2015 07:02

My neighbours daughter gave birth in a private part of a London NHS hospital. She haemorrhaged, was rushed through to the NHS part of the hospital, almost died, had to have pints and pints of blood.
I think she was a priority for at least two hours.

Luckily she had chosen a private hospital that could offer NHS emergency care.
If she had transferred by ambulance she would have died.

olympicsrock · 20/07/2015 07:36

I don't think anyone is saying hire more anaesthetists and fewer mid wives. There are great mws but they are overstretched and a few people who have been overworked with the result that they seem to have compassion fatigue. I had a brilliant mw during my induction. She was kind professional, put me at ease and when the shit hit the fan acted fast as lightning. I have a healthy son thanks to her.
But the postnatal care was awful. Indifferent staff a bullying mw no help with bfeeding. I recently went to a debriefing appointment. It was useful to help me clarify events .my notes were meticulous and reflected my excellent care during Labour . It helped to realise that DS was ot and so had not rotated it helped to know that things did not go wrong due to anything wrong with my body. The senior midwife was horrified to hear about the poor ward care apologised and did not minimise or belittle my recollections. She promised to pass on my comments to the matron and said that they had other similar ward feedback and what had improved since. It has made me less frightened to go back in to the same ward and it was good for me to be able to put some of the negative aspects to bed .

MuffMuffTweetAndDave · 20/07/2015 08:28

A woman who has been traumatised due to lack of adequate pain relief has not by any stretch of the imagination had a good outcome. And the fact that none of your requests were noted indicates something suspicious has gone on. The same thing happened to me.

Lastly OP, if anyone tries to minimise what happened to you with any variant of 'you have a healthy baby' treat it with the derision it deserves. Especially if its coming from someone who thinks doctors are morally obliged not to provide elective surgery. That's always the sign of a truly dangerous extremist.

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