a place to ask possibly stupid Qs about birth

[PerpetualStudent]

Because, at 19+4, I have what might be some dumb questions RE childbirth. Based on my own anxieties & things I've read/heard that I don't fully understand.
Anyone who can shed light on the following, or add their own queries to make me feel better, will be very welcome!

1. Do you always poo when giving birth? Could you not circumvent this by a strong cup of coffee & aiming to, ahem, clear the decks once early contractions start?

2. Why are people given catheters after birth? Does everyone get one? Are they not horribly uncomfortable and restricting?

3. What are the main reasons for having forceps or that vaccum thing? Aren't forceps supposed to be quite traumatic so if they have an alternative, why still use them?

4. (the biggie) In your experience, how much did the drs/midwives/etc support you in the choices you wanted to make around your birth, and how much did they keep you informed about what was going on and ask your opinion if a decision had to be made?
   Im starting to read about active birth techniques etc. Im of the opinion that drugs/medical intervention are not the enemy/failing, but would like to be able to move around and have an option about what position to be in (obvs assuming nothing is going wrong) - but worry I'll be all ready to kneel/pace/moo/bring my baby into the world like the powerful woman I am, and some midwife will just give me a and go "pop onto your back, there's a dear"
   I'll be at North Middlesex, hopefully in midwife centre, if that helps

As for your last question, I have always felt like I have had plenty of choice, even despite complications. If you are able to still make choices and requests during labour, then sure. Personally I didn't feel in a position to be making choices anyway, completely out of it with pain (even with just gas&air) and was quite happy for others to be telling me what to do. It can be really weird how your body reacts to pain. The most undignified but most amazing experience... Have ideas in mind but also be ready to be flexible.

I pooed with both my labours! Just a little bit, not a huge smelly log or anything. The first time I wasn't really aware, or didn't really care at all. The second baby the final stage was super quick and I didn't have time to control my breathing or anything, I pooed in the birth pool and was apologising profusely between massive contractions, the midwives were delighted and said it was an excellent sign and to get pushing!

I didn't have a catheter with either labour, but weed quite quickly after it was all over - in the loo - I hadn't lost ALL sense of decorum.

Ventouse - I think is used mainly when the baby gets in an awkward spot. But no experience here!

Midwives - especially in a midwife led unit are very calm and supportive of what you want to do, they are led by the mothers wishes then help and advise and of course have the skills and expertise incase there are any complications. They will respect you in my experience, but you need to respect them, they know what they are doing. So if they say, push/don't push/lie down/walk around its good to listen don't just keep pushing regardless as you are desperate for the baby to come out and rip your vag to bits

They used to routinely give women enemas on arrival at hospital to get the poo out of the way. So you could buy a kit from the chemist if you thought you would care that much - but really, don't bother!

If you have an epidural you need a catheter to go with it.

I had a ventouse twice, which is like a mini sink plunger. Ds wasn't coming out for no obvious reason, and they tried the ventouse while preparing me for a CS. He popped out in two pushes, to everyone's surprise! The inch-wide red circle on his head faded after about a week. Did the same for dd because again pushing wasn't working, it was late at night, and there was a theatre next door empty. She had enough hair to cover the mark. It's a really mild intervention. I was advised to ask for an experienced person to do stitches after, which turned out really well - took nearly an hour 2nd time but I felt fine within a couple weeks despite a 2nd degree tear.

Forceps are more awkward, used when the baby is too far down for a simple CS or sometimes as an alternative to CS.

Everyone I dealt with during birth (and afterwards the 2nd time) was fantastic at telling me what was going on and what options they recommended and why - so I had many hours of kneeling and in the water etc, but they eventually advised that if another two hours didn't result in any movement, it would be a very good idea to try speeding things up - and then it got more medicalised, but I think that was necessary.

Continuing thanks!

Hoggle I've definitely been looking into NCT classes, and absolutely want to do some form of antenatal class - my only reservation with NCT is, from what I've read in here is seems like you've very dependent on the particular philosophy of the course leader as to whether you get a balanced approach which discusses interventions, or a hardline 'fully natural or bust' approach. Think I need to do some research with local mums and see... Otherwise there's a local doula who runs classes and seems to come highly recommended.

Nicky I do see what you mean, thanks for your explanation. It might feel like a trivial difference, but when I've read things about birth like "then they did this" or "They told me I had to..." I worry it's going to be very didactic with no explanation or choice.
I work in and research education, so I look at lot at how things are phrased: i.e. questions/invitations rather than demands, breaking down explanations etc so it's an important distinction for me.

Capecath - that's sort of where my poo question came from! One of my mum's pieces of birth wisdom is "No one tells you the urge to push is just the same as when you really need to poo"

I know what you mean Perpetual. Unfortunately I felt I was told what was going to happen. Or rather it was all phrased in a way that didn't leave room for choice. However... Oh and I are both a bit, well people pleasers, I didn't want to do anything wrong or put anyone out. I'm pregnant again and will do things a little differently this time! For instance, when I was told that I'd have to stay and labour at hospital I just accepted it. Looking back I was just in everyone's way, not far enough in labour to be there but not allowed to go home, I think I spoke to the mw there about twice in the first 12 hours. If the same happened again they'd have to have some pretty compelling reasons to keep me there!
You can put things like this in your birth plan or get your birth partner clued up on what you'd like so they can fight your corner/demand explanations for you.

Your Mum's right! I remember saying "I'm going to poo myself, seriously, really poo myself" and the mw saying "that's your baby's head"!

I didn't poo myself but I was so off my head on g&a I doubt I would have noticed if I did.

I had to have a catheter for over a week after giving birth as I couldn't wee naturally. The mw will make sure you can wee after you give birth, you have to fill a large pot. Initially they put the catheter in for 24 hours, took it out and I still couldn't wee. Then it went in for 48 hours and still no wee when removed. I was then sent home with it for a week. It was a nightmare as I had a 2nd degree tear so needed to take care of my stitches with a catheter in was difficult and it was uncomfortable and ached. Was so relieved when it came out and I could wee normally.

Regards to the birth I had a fantastic mw who encouraged me to have an active birth and who explained everything and she really supported me through it. I felt completely at ease and I feel I had a positive birth experience x

It's a funny one. I don't know if it is just me but I feel so out of control during labour, like I just revert into this bubble and go by my most basic of instincts. So hard to describe. I feel a bit like a cavewoman:P I was so determined with ds2 that I was only going to have gas and air I stated this clearly to dh and midwives that even if I plead, not to give in. Have a distinct memory during birth of desperately wanting drugs, looking to dh with big puppy dog eyes and pleading, but no, he reminded me of what I had said... I laugh about it now! I suppose my point being, would recommend being open minded to things not going to plan and consider advise from those there to help you...

1. Poo - I went to the loo and cleared out as soon as I went into labour. It was the first sign with the second one too .

1. Catheter - had one afterwards for 24hour because of swelling. Did not have to get up to go to the loo which was fine.

1. No experience of assisted delivery

1. Mine all came too fast to follow any birth plans - we just took what came!

1. I did poo. Unfortunate but hey ho.

1. I also had a catheter for 24 hours afterwards, but I'd had a 3rd degree tear which had to be repaired in theatre. The catheter was primarily to give the area a bit of a break, and also to allow me to recover in bed while the epidural wore off without needing to pee. I think catheters come as standard for epidurals and c-sections as well. They're not as uncomfortable and restrictive as you might think, and removing them is painless.

1. No poo but was terrified when the MW insisted that I sit on the world's most uncomfortable birthing chair as DH was behind me. Don't think it helped that I was so worried about it, wasn't relaxed at all. MW do not care what you do - they've seen it all so perhaps if you are concerned, your birthing partner needs to have a designated place to stand!!

1. I had a Catheter because I couldn't walk for a good 10 hours (see 3!). As I couldn't feel anything below my waist, it wasn't uncomfortable until the last few hours. Same with the restricting, couldn't move anyway.

1. They used forceps for DS because he was going down the birth canal and then back up. There was meconium, his heart rate was dropping and we were both exhausted.

They made me sign all forms for c section but in the end Dr decided forceps with an episiotomy, spinal and epidural was preferable for him. I wish he hadn't but didn't feel able to speak up as I could barely talk.

It was incredibly traumatic and DS and I were both swollen, bloodied and bruised. It broke my heart to look at him and I could hardly walk up the stairs for weeks and weeks. However, my friend had forceps and she suffered none of this so don't rule the use of them out altogether. In some scenarios they are the safest way to get the baby out.

1. I don't feel like the MWs listened to me at all. They were very kind and polite in their patent ignoring of my wishes though! It was even worse once the doctor got called into it (after meconium was seen). However, after much CBT therapy I can just about see that they were just trying to do what was right.

As a first time mum I felt unable to speak up about things I wasn't happy with. I tried very hard at the beginning and was pretty much ignored so from that point on I just didn't think there was any point.

Don't do what I did - stick up for yourself if you are able and make sure that your birthing partners are prepared to do the same if they have to.

I did poo in my labours. But I just went to the toilet and did it as you normally would. both times only minutes before my children were born.

Not everyone gets 'early contractions' Sometimes you can be not in labour one minute and in full blown pushing a baby out mode the next. True. And not necessarily a good thing.

I have never had a catheter.

I didn't really want to be supported in my choice, as such, I just really wanted to be left alone. And as there isn't really much you can do to someone without coming near them, 'decisions to be made' didn't really come up. What happened happened, basically I sorted myself out with no time for chat.

I pooed only in my first labour

I had a catheter in my second labour because I'd haemorrhaged and they didn't want me walking around.

I didn't feel supported at all but tbh I knew what I wanted and didn't have a strict birth plan so didn't really need supporting as such if that makes sense?

Don't know about forceps etc but when I had my kids if they'd got stuck I wouldn't have cared less what they'd used so long as they were ok.

1. Had the vacuum cup to get dd out of me 6 weeks ago. She was back to back, but they didnt know that. They tried x3 with one sort, then again with another, saying if it doesnt work this time its into theatre for a c section. It worked.

The first birth was easy on paper, but was treated horribly. i didnt realise how much it affected me until i was pg with no. 2. i switched hospitals and onto a knpwn midwife scheme and it could not have been more different.

I pooed but did not realise! The mw fiddled about in the pool behind me ... I thought with the taps. DH told me layer she was fishing little plops! Not bothered tbh as it's so common it's not like pooing yourself any other time.

As Ida said ... you can go from zero to waaaa push very fast. I did and it was very intense and painful and I tore as she shot out - no time for pain killers. But the mw were very supportive and calm at my birth centre which made it a positive memory, painful and scary cab ride included!

1. did not poo - body had a good clear out just before it all started getting interesting

2. I had a catheter because I ended up having the hormone drip and an epidural so could not get up for a wee

3. after pushing for hours the Dr was called in and they worked out that DS was back to back and we were both knackered so off we went to theatre for an episiotomy and some forceps. DS was not marked at all and I was stitched up nicely so have no problems with that

4. I went in there with no plan other than not being on my back - being induced put pay to that, so just went with the flow. The MW's were great - had 4 over my time there but they were all great bar 1 who was a bit wet but it was during a fairly quiet period so it was fine.

In my experience, some staff take your birth plan really seriously and encourage you to have an active labour etc. However, some don't. When having my first, I noticed a huge change in atmosphere when my first MW ended her shift and the second one started. The first MW seemed to support my birth plan; the second seemed to think she knew better.

Admittedly DC1's birth was a bit more complex than I had hoped (forceps in theatre and prepped for CS) but it felt very much like no-one cared about my birth plan at all. For example, I'd wanted my own choice of music in theatre; I got local radio and DC1 was born to the sound of traffic reports and adverts. It sounds trivial, but it mattered to me. DH had to fight with the MW to allow skin to skin because she was busy doing paperwork and didn't seem to care that these were my first moments with my firstborn.

What I will say, and I say this to all the pregnant women I can, is that the experience of giving birth is important, and get a doula if you want a good birth experience. She will fight for your birth plan so your DH/DP won't have to. Communicating your wishes can be really hard, especially if things do get a little more complicated. You will probably lose the ability to speak coherently, or at all, and your DP will be exhausted, emotional and unable to advocate for you.

I wish beyond all wishing that I'd hired a doula when DC1 was born. I had one for DC2 and things couldn't have been more different.

Apologies if someone has already said this:

I believe part of the reason you poo during birth is so that the bacteria from your gut colonise your baby's gut. Without this bacteria they wouldn't have any (?) in their gut and wouldn't be able to digest food or even milk. Apologies to biologists too if that's incorrect!

With baby 1 I had forceps. The labour had been so long that his head was too puffy (from repeatedly pushing against my cervix) for them to use ventouse.

With baby 2 I had ventouse.

Re birth plan I think midwives try to accommodate what you want but it just isn't always possible. Got my birth plan out with midwife after no 1 had been born and we had a good laugh at it. It was miles away from what happened. Not that I actually minded in the event!

Good luck and congratulations on pregnancy!

bexter - I don't think that's quite true, babies don't need to encounter poo to be able to digest milk!

This is an interesting article on how babies get their first bacteria. Looks like they're still learning more about it.

Sorry I spelled your name wrong bexster!

I didn't poo cause in the early stages I went to the loo about twenty times as my early labour felt like stomach cramps and I thought I had diarrhoea.
No catheter cause I had no anaesthetic. I think they are mostly used for epidural a and c sections?
I didn't need informed by anybody else as to what was happening as it all happened naturally (very lucky I know) so they just watched over me while it all happened, at times I felt I knew how it was going better than the mw.

Ooh that is interesting projectbabyweight! I see it mentions the belief I had and says it's now debunked. Which is a shame in some ways as I felt some consolation about the pooing, thinking it was doing the baby some good!! So really it's just an inevitable part of physiology. Ah well. Thinking about it I should have realised that it wasn't quite right as all those babies born by c section or to mums who don't poo for whatever reason can still digest milk!