i just know they are going to say no to a homebirth. can i refuse to see consultant?

[gigglinggoblin]

have now seen mw 3 times and left in tears each time. i am starting to think it would be better not seeing her at all!

last time i said i wanted hb, she said previous colposcopy could cause problems, i might have to see consultant. anyway i refused that appointment and that has now been ruled out but she is now saying i had big bleeds after last 2 babies (i only remember one) so will have to have to go to see them. personally i think its a load of crap and was told by different mw that consultant i have is anti-hb so i am better off staying away. my mw said they all are fairly anti-hb but i think its more her tbh.

cant afford to go private and feel like i am being bullied into hospital birth because they are scaring me with worst case scenarios.

what happens if i refuse to see consultant? tbh i dont need the stress of the appointment as would have to take 2yo along, mw said they just review the notes and discuss it with me. i have never discussed anything with a consultant, have always just been given their opinion and sent home so dont see the point in me going, surely they can read the notes without me there.

what happens if i just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend its not happening? am dreading next mw appointment and its 7 weeks away ffs. they tell you to avoid stress but its them creating it.

i got lots of fab advice last time i saw her so suppose am just looking to rant and maybe get sympathy [pathetic emoticon]

No personal experience of this, but AFAIK, you don't have to do anything you don't want to. this Yahoo group is the place to ask all your questions. Very experienced and knowledgeable bunch on all matters hb-related.

I hope you get the birth you want. I was talked out of a hb at 36 weeks and have regretted it ever since.

Have a look at this site... www.homebirth.org.uk

Loads of good advice, and think I remember seeing stuff about your rights on there.

I had a colposcopy and it was never mentioned as a reason not to go for a homebirth (and I really don't see why it would affect your birth). I would try to avoid seeing the consultant (you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, legally). If you get put under 'consultant care' instead of 'midwife care' it might complicate things and stand in your way of a home birth. The only reason you might want to see a consultant is if you feel you want all the facts about your individual circumstances before making a decision.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, nobody can force you to go into hospital. I even think that midwives are obliged to attend you at home - if you phone when you go into labour and they say there aren't enough staff available, apparently you can still refuse to come in to hospital and they are obliged to find a midwife from somewhere to come to you.

Good luck.

lots of sympathy to you! It's so bloomin' postcode lottery isn't it? My m/w strongly encouraged a homebirth with my second - despite the fact that my first pregnancy I had bleeding thoughtout the pregnancy, had him 4 weeks early, and had a few bleeds earlyu in the second pregnancy... Any way you can find out which of your local consultants are more pro-home birth & request them?? My local NCT has a homebirth support group (open to all, not just members) and they were very knowledgeable about local practicioners - to the extent that they guessed who my m/w was!!

(BTW< I ended up having a hospital birth anyway as i bled early in the labour -depending on how far you are from hosp, its not impossible to just go in if anything goes 'wrong'...

well, you can just refuse to see the consultant, they can't bully you into seeing anybody.
Then you tell the midwife (either at your next appointment or on the phone before so you don't stress for 7 weeks) that you have, after much thought and careful consideration, decided that you will be having a home birth. You have to be firm.

Your midwife might be supportive (mine was) but if there are medical risks advising against a home birth you will have to sign a waiver. A very anti-HB midwife came to my house with this waiver and went through it with me. It wasn't the most pleasant experience, but I was friendly and stood my ground, and I was certain that this would be the best course of action all things considered.

Once all that was out of the way nobody questioned my decision again, and I went on to have a home birth.

( for a bit of history - my first labour was a horrid induction with subsequent serious haemmorhage and a very unpleasant time in hospital, second baby was born at home with a private midwife because I didn't want any hassle from anyone, baby arrived before the midwife got there, and I went into shock 30 minutes later and had to transfer to hospital. Third baby [as described above] born at home on the NHS, didn't fancy giving birth by the side of the road en-route to hospital) I have also had surgery on my cervix btw - a cone biopsy, where quite a bit is cut away - and nobody ever mentioned this as a potential problem during my pregnancies.

Sorry can't offer specialist knowledge of what happened to you before, but having read the brilliant Your Birth Rights by Pat THomas (borrowed from library) I came away thinking that you cannot be refused a home birth, whatever the circumstances (although of course your midwives attending the home birth would insist on a transfer to hospital if you/baby was in danger).

Hopefully someone with specialist knowledge will see this and post soon.

All crossed for you, my second birth was at home and I feel so strongly that it's an option that should be encouraged. At the very least you can write to the head of midwifery at your hosp stating your case. Am happy to help you write/edit the letter if it comes to that, feel free to CAT me and I'll re-borrow the Pat THomas book so you can quote the law.

thank you all, i am really miserble about this whole thing now, it took me days to stop being angry after last appointment and its likely to be the case again.

didnt know about the yahoo group, thanks for that i will probably make use of it!

might have a look for that book aswell, maybe handy to get a copy to look at when i am feeling like this

good to know you had a successful hb after haemmorhage geekgrrl, they are going on about having too much bloodloss after ds2 and 3, but i disagree. ds2 was horrible induction and ds3 bloodloss was within the 'twice the amount of a normal period for the first 24 hours' i have just been quoted by the mw, so i feel they are looking for problems where there arent really any.

am worried if she turns up when i am in labour she will try to transfer me, its really quite worrying. i now feel i would be better off doing it alone and calling an ambulance if necessary which is the exact opposite of what she is trying to talk me in to. thankfully i am only 20 weeks so time to sort this out yet, dont know how i will react if she tries springing things on me at 36 weeks like gillian

I was told by my MW that I couldn't be routinely booked for a HB because DS1 was over 10lb and outside their "normal" limits. DS2 was smaller but that didn't matter. She told me that I had to go to the consultant and say "I am having a homebirth and this is why..."

At the end of the day, I probably would have listened had the consultant given me compelling reasons not to have a HB. He didn't, said I should have a growth scan to check the baby wasn't a monster but that I wouldn't have any problem delivering a larger than average baby having had "good sized" ones before. What I'm trying to say is you might be surprised by the consultant.

Unfortunately I think the law is a bit fuzzy on this one (as it explains on the homebirth.org site) and I don't think legally a woman has a right to a homebirth.

From my experience you really have to be pushy to get a home birth, and go in prepared to argue your case, otherwise the midwife might do something sneaky like say "well, let's leave the decision until later, shall we?" and then treat you as a hospital birth from then on. This almost happened to me with ds2.

I think it would really help to contact a homebirth group in your area as they might be able to tell you which consultants are pro-home birth. With ds1 I was induced because of suspected pre-eclampsia. (I wish I hadn't agreed, but that's another story.) So with ds2 I was labelled as 'high-risk' and sent to see a consultant. I went with a file full of notes about why my previous situation shouldn't stop me from having a home birth, and was pleasantly surprised. Although he told me some horror stories and tried to make me feel that my risk of post-partum haemmorhage would be higher with a hb (it isn't) it eventually transpired that his wife was having a home birth herself! He also said that he didn't think I had had pre-eclampsia in the first place and so there was no need for me to have consultant-led care, whichever kind of birth I wanted.

Finally, if your midwife is really annoying you I think you could go to the supervisor of midwives and ask to change her. I haven't done this myself but I think it is possible - and it could make a huge difference to you. With ds1 I had an awful midwife in the nearby surgery. It took me at least an hour to travel back home from work to go to appointments, but she always scheduled appointments for when she wanted them. This meant that if there weren't any other appointments on that day she would give me the first one (usually 2pm) instead of the last one, so she could leave her work early. She treated the appointments as something to get through rather than a chance to check if I was okay and the foetus was okay - urine sample, blood pressure, prod around a bit and that was about all. She put me off discussing home birth and then told me straight off that I lived too far away from the hospital so they just wouldn't do homebirths in my area. In the end I booked in with another hospital. It was quite late (30 weeks, possibly?) but they had a lovely team of community midwives who were really supportive of homebirths and came to see me in my house for appointments instead of expecting me to fit in with their other arrangements. The contrast was shocking. I'm not sure what kind of 'patients charter' your NHS trust has, but the whole climate seems to be pro-choice at the moment so you might be able to turn this to your advantage.

hope that helps a bit

i suppose i might be surprised, but having been warned that he is anti hb i dont think i will get far. i just want the stress to go away, i cant believe its so hard to get her to be a bit positive about this. hb was suggested last time by a different mw so i find it hard fighting for this when i dont think i should have to. lack of sleep isnt helping i suppose, am feeling a bit fragile generally so its hard to know if im just over emotional. doubt that could be the case after every appointment with her tho.

gigglinggoblin

1. Join that homebirth yahoo group, they will be a lot of ladies who will be able to support you.

2. Get a copy of your previous birth notes so you have all information at hand

3. Ring up the supervisor of midwifes at your hosptial and tell her you ARE having a homebirth, you REFUSE to see the midwife you are seeing at the moment and you would like a midwife that WILL support you in your choice of birth and that you DO NOT want to see a consulant.

If you do not want to ring her, write her a letter. IF anyone trys to put the onus back on to you tell them if they have a problem with what you want then they will have to deal with it.

4. Sit back and enjoy your pregnancy and look forward to your home birth, you can do it.

thanks mp, i am wondering if it is just this mw as the one i spoke to at the hosital when i rang to say i wasnt going to last appt was lovely and very positive, as was the mw i had a couple of years ago - all are part of the same hospital so i dont think its the policy in this area to be negative towards hb.

Also talk to Angela Horn owner of this website . She will be a big help.

how do you get copies of notes, do you just phone the hospital? i wish i could sound as forceful as you, atm i am finding it hard work despite normally having no problems being assertive, now i just want to crawl into a hole!

Yes cant remember the name of the department but ring up the hospital reception and ask, sometimes you do have to pay up to £50 for a copy (which is ridiculous for the cost of a photocopy but well worth it I think)

I know how difficult it is to be assertive especially when you are pregnant. For my last birth I was not strong enough to say what I wanted, we sort of came to a compromise with the midwifes and consultant. I had a great birth but it was not what I wanted.

When I do have my last and final baby I will do what I want to do after making an informed decision. The birth of your baby is a once in a lifetime experience and it should be how you want it to be.

To get copy of notes -- most hospitals/PCTs have application forms for you to request this. Have a look on the hospital website, but if you can't see anything there then write to "The Health Records Manager" at the hospital, stating "I wish to make an application for access to my maternity records. I would be grateful if you could send me your Application Form for access to these health records together with any information or guidance sheet you may have to help me make the appliucation."

If they don't have a specific form then write asking for a full copy of all your notes (including computerised records) and all relevant attached documents including letters and laboratory result sheets.

They can charge up to £50 for administration/photocopying, but most hospitals charge a flat fee of around £10-£25. Your notes must be sent to you within 40 days of your asking for them -- the time starts when the record holder receives the fee and enough written information to enable him/her to locate the records.

thanks both of you, i will do that. i feel a bit unarmed when she say 'xyz happened last time' and i get a bit confused over which birth was which (this will be no.4). lack of information given at the time is also shocking, i am being told stuff about my last pregnancy now which i was not aware of at the time. doesnt help with the trust issue at all

Why don't you go and see the consultant? You might find that their attitude is totally different to that of your MW. You won't know what they're going to say until you go.
And why not get yourself a different MW while you're at it - contact your local supervisor of MW and ask to be assigned someone else. You don't need someone making you cry.

They can't make you do anything you don't want to do BUT, personally, I would have the appointment with the Consultant.

I had baby with abnormalities, then baby at 34 weeks with difficulties. If your midwife has concerns then she may be asking for Consultant approval so she covers her back, which is what mine did.

So I saw Consultant, had swabs and scans done and they wanted my heamoglobin levels checked every week as I was borderline anaemic (issues with bleeding). All the test scame back fine but I did get put on iron tablets to bump my levels up incase of abnormal bleeding.

I am glad that all the boxes had been ticked as I felt more confident with the prospect of homebirthing. Also, if anything had of happened, at least I would have known that everything was predicted to be as low risk as possible kwim?

If you are like me and not good at sticking up for yourself take a friend/dh/your mum to appointments and talk to said friend etc beforehand so they can remind you of anything you forget to say at the time. Can you afford a doula? They are great for confidence-boosting and can help support you in asking for what you want.