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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Feel like I'm being bullied into having c-section... help!

90 replies

nowanearlyNicemum · 14/09/2006 14:06

I'm sure this is a subject that has been done to death but I really could do with some advice.

I'm 36 weeks pregnant and my obstetrician seems determined for me to have a second c-section despite me being very clear from day 1 that I want to try for VBAC. Feel like I'm constantly struggling against the incredibly medicalised french health system.
dd was born by emergency c-section 2 years ago due to stagnation - a 2-day labour following induction (aaaargh) and I only got to 4cm.
This time round, I feel totally different. Have been having LOADS of contractions, and some quite painful ones. Yesterday I had a show and when I saw obstetrician this morning she said that my cervix was short (not sure if that's the correct english terminology ) so that's got to be a good sign. But the baby is still very high up (although head down). However, she thinks that the baby will be bigger than dd and is sending me for a pelvic scan to see whether planned c-section would be the best route.
I'm having the scan on Tuesday and then she'll make 'her' decision. I'm desperate for some hard facts to back up how I feel. Why does it feel like everyone else is making the decisions about how I have MY baby?
I'm not stupid. I'm quite prepared to accept that if there is a danger for my baby I'll have to have a 2nd c-section. It's just that I've not felt 'listened to' from the word go and that she was just stringing me along, waiting for the day when she'd say - 'Right, well we'll book you in for your section then'.
Would appreciate your experience, opinions etc...

OP posts:
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mears · 15/09/2006 14:58

Because it will not tell you whether the baby will get through or not basically. Years ago women used to be X-rayed to see whether the pelvis was big enough to 'allow' labour next time. It really didn't help at all and was stopped. The only way really of being sure a baby won't come through is to let labour start and see what happens.
There might be something in the NICE guidance about it.

alismummy · 15/09/2006 15:17

i had a vbac despite the lead consultant saying at 38 weeks that 'he did not see me giving birth vaginally' and the fact that baby was high up. i am very small framed- 5'2 and 7.5 stone, but managed to give birth to dd (8lb 6oz). 3 things i think helped. one was that i went into labour naturally, not induced as with ds. Also self belief and a supportive midwife. (which i didnt have the first time round). Good luck with whatever you choose.

Uwila · 15/09/2006 15:20

Why don't you come over to the UK and just show up at a hospital in labour. Not much your French consutant could do about that!

Fodders · 15/09/2006 16:53

Hi nowanearlyNicemum

I had an emergency C-Section for dd1 in Grasse hospital on the Cote d'Azur 3 years ago. Reasons = foetal distress after 24 hours active labour and dilation stagnated after 16 hours (8cms dilation). DD1's head remained high throughout. She showed up after 41 weeks. I had had a pelvic scan to check size of me and baby - all was ok.

I moved back to UK last summer, 5 months pregnant with dd2.

After a sudden onset of contractions I took myself off to hospital to have DD2 in November last year. I had another section after more foetal distress, but this time after only 8 hours of active labour and little dilation. Her head remained high throughout and she too didn't turn up till just over 41 weeks.

Noone in France or the UK told me to expect another section (and I had asked about the likelihood!) until I met my UK Consultant.

I was VERY surprised that I was offered a section every time I had a Consultant appointment. I refused and asked for "trial of scar".

The UK consultant (Professor of obstetrics at our local hospital in Cambridge) explained, somewhat delightfully, that if I was a race horse, he wouldn't put any money on me.

They offered surgery because their assessment was that I was unlikely to manage a successful vaginal birth. They assess your likelihood of success on your past performance. If you have already delivered successfully before, then they'll agree that your chances of vaginal delivery are higher. But if you have only had one pregnancy that ended in a section AND there was more than one reason why you had a section, then, in the Consultant's minds, there's more than one thing that might make a vaginal delivery go wrong again.

A friend who had a section in Grasse after a cord prolapse, was not seen by a Consultant throughout her pregnancy, and there was no question of planning another section. The reason for her section was nothing to do with any peculiarity on her part.

I've decided that, in my case, the Consultant was probably right and I am a bit peculiar when it comes to childbirth. I'm great at conceiving, and not bad at carrying my babies, great at having lots of good contractions but rubbish at actually getting those babies out. My babies stay inside for as long as they possibly can and don't respond well to the stresses of labour so I need surgery to give me and my babies the best chance of not being damaged during birth.

My second section was a much more positive experience than my first. I was prepared for the likelihood and I was monitored much more closely (though not continuously). DD2 was distressed within 2 hours of labour starting. Retrospectively, had I been monitored more with dd1 I may have had a section sooner, but that night I was unlucky - delivery ward full, only a trainee midwive to check me.

Recovering from my second section was much easier as I wasn't so tired from a long labour. This made a big difference to the early days back at home.

Perhaps another discussion about your first section might help you and your Consultant to reach an agreement? Failing that, I can thoroughly recommend the Sages-Femmes in Mouans Sartoux (near Mougins) if you want another unbiased opinion - they are "Liberales" and do not work with Grasse hospital as it is not "Liberale" enough! - sorry but I don't know which hospitals they do work with - but I'm sure they'd be happy to meet you!

Hope this helps.

Elibean · 15/09/2006 20:35

I had my first baby in my early forties, and was induced due to rising BP (and my then OB's anxiety levels) at 39+3. I also had excess amniotic fluid, dd's head disengaged, my cervix remained closed and high, they couldn't break my waters, so I ended up with a section. Which was fine - what wasn't fine was that I'd had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed a trial of labour in the first place.

I'm now pregnant again (and even more ancient) and my current OB has said 'if you line up 10 OBs, with your history, they would probably all recommend a second section. But I am happy to support you in a VBAC if thats important to you, IF your bp is ok/baby is head down etc.' Which makes all the difference in the world, to me.
Her attitude is SO different from my last OB's (who almost patted my head and said 'you mustn't be disappointed if you end up with a section' when I was barely 12 weeks pregnant - on the grounds that I was over 40 - then was really stroppy with me for not having an elective on the grounds that he 'knew' I would end up with a section anyway, so 'whats the point in putting yourself through labour first').

Whether I have a VBAC or a C-Section is not really the issue for me this time around...I just want my baby and me to be safe. But I don't particularly want a section unless I need one, either.
For me, its about trusting the consultant or not - if he/she is working WITH me, and listening to my instincts/wishes, or not.

mummamoo · 16/09/2006 11:13

Nowanearlynicemum,
I had my DS by emergency c-section as he was breech. Had no problem feeding him, although it hurt like hell but persevered! .
I had my DD 40+13. I had been having contractions for weeks. I, like you, had expressed that I wanted a natural birth as so wanted to be mobile for my DS and really wanted to give it a go. The consultant said no way and they wouldn't induce me due to my scar. I felt mortified but don't easily give up so contacted my midwife who advised me to contact the head sister at the hospital who in turn booked me in to see the head of the labour ward. I saw the head of labour ward (she was lovely) and she apologised to me and thankfully examined me and found me to be 5cms dilated (all those contractions were doing something then ). She then broke my waters.. I didn't dilate any more all day so they put me on an oxcitocin (excuse spelling!) drip and our gorgeous DD was born 6 hours later. I can honestly say it was the most fantastic experience of my life. Breast feeding so much easier with DD and she is such a relaxed, chilled baby. Although the poor lamb suffers from severe eczema, milk allergy and has impetigo at the moment... specialists seeing her and will get her better but don't think that's down to her birth at all... just life unfortunately
You take care and do what's right for you. Mother's intuition is a wonderful thing. MM xx

snugglebumnappies · 16/09/2006 12:26

Hi just to join the thred I am a midwife and am about 18 weeks pregnant with my third baby, I am planning a home water VBAC with this one. First Baby forceps delivery and massive PPH, Second Baby I was aiming for a vaginal breech brth but she turned to oblique breech when I was about 8cm dilated and then I made the decicion to go to theatre for my cs. This time I am booking with an independent midwife and having my scan performed by a private clinic to avoid any contact with a consultant obs as I just don't need the nagativity, I am fully aware of the facts (0.5-3% risk of uterine rupture depending on which study you believe, but there are no stats at present for rupture with a natural homebirth with no intervention) and feel aslong as I can justify the risk with the very positive influances a homebirth will have on me then thats ok, after all we are all grown women and if we are given THE FACTS then we will all make our own minds up on what is within our comfort zones and we then take responsiblilty for our own care, not, as the obs believe, that we need the medical profession to take responsibility for us.

nowanearlyNicemum · 16/09/2006 15:04

mears, those guidelines make interesting reading - have now read them cover to cover. 2 particular points I shall be bringing up with my obstetrician next week are:

  1. Pelvimetry is not useful in predicting ?failure to progress? in labour and should not be used in decision making about mode of birth.
  2. Shoe size, maternal height and estimations of fetal size (ultrasound or clinical examination) do not accurately predict cephalopelvic disproportion and should not be used to predict ?failure to progress? during labour. Having said that, I'm not entirely convinced I'll have time to see the consultant next week as I may well be giving birth Am feeling sick and dizzy, have mild case of runs, had a show 3 days ago and am having heaps of contractions... does it sound like I'm on the right track??? Not entirely sure as I was induced with dd and didn't have any of these 'symptoms' apart from the show. Uwila, It had crossed my mind but that's a very very long train journey and chances are I wouldn't make it to the UK before giving birth!! Fodders, thanks for that very relevant info. I'm due to give birth in Antibes (had the choice between Antibes and Grasse!) but will definitely try and contact the midwives in Mouans Sartoux. Merci mille fois. well done mummamoo - hope your little dd is feeling better soon.
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MoreSpamThanGlam · 16/09/2006 15:52

Snugglebumnappies!!!!
I could kiss you! I am just about to deliver a letter to head of midwifery at my local hospital for exactly the same reason, except that I cannot afford an independant midwife. My scar is almost 8 years old and when I mentioned the stats they then started on about CEFM - which i also dont blinkin want as I have SPD.
What is the bloody problem with the hospitals in this country/ Its like a conspiracy.
Is it just money? I am 38 wweeks tomorrow and i am pooing myself incase I dont get a midwife.

lulumama · 16/09/2006 16:15

Nowanearlynicemum- show! contractions! runs! labour!!! sounds like at the least you're on the way!! spontaneous labour bodes well for a VBAC! keep us posted on how you're getting on! sending VBAC vibes to you xxx

MoreSpamThanGlam · 16/09/2006 17:02

Does sound imminent doesnt it? How exciting!!!
Let us know.....

lulumama · 16/09/2006 18:20

morespam - hope don't mind me putting in my thoughts - i had vbac 14 months ago - virtually 6 years between my two children so uterus well and truly healed!!!what was reason for your first C/S - might not be relevant this time around? hospitals seem so scared of litigation that anything deviating from the 'norm', whatever that is! scares them!! my emergency c/s due to 'failure to progress' so no reason it would happen again. was adamant at every antenatal & obstetrician appt that i wanted a trial of labour - statistics brought to my attention, but i asked how many ruptures he'd seen - which brought things to a close!!! they do have to tell you the risks - if you understand them, but think it's a risk worth taking, go for it! i did and it was amazing xx good luck xxxx

snugglebumnappies · 17/09/2006 08:03

Hi morespam.... Don't let the fact that you may not get a midwife worry you in the least, the hospital has an obligation to provide one, they have known about your homebirth plans for a while know and therefore should be ready for you, I doubt very much that the wouldn't send a mw to a home VBAC as how reckless would that be. Beverly Beech at AIMS (Association for Improvement in Maternity Services) is a good woman to have on your side, she often helps women get what they want when hospitals are being unreasonable (sory I can't post the link new to mumsnet and haven't got the hang of it yet! but just google it and you will find them!) Good luck, although there is no way you actually need it!

Daisymoo · 17/09/2006 09:27

Good luck to everyone planning vbacs. I had a hba2c almost a year ago and it was the best decision I ever made (apart from having the children of course!)

3andnomore · 17/09/2006 09:31

link to AIMS website

paddleboat · 17/09/2006 10:50

I had an emergency c section and then a VBAC at home so a HBAC! Like you I felt that the medical profession were against it but I think that it is about making an informed choice. What do you really feel is right for you? And go with that choice. If at any time you decide you wish to have a csection you can go for it. Also belief in yourself is a great aid to labour. Believe you can (whatever method you choose). "Trial of labour" isn't such a positive term for the most amazing thing - giving birth! Good luck, wishing you all the best.
Paddleboat

hattiesmum · 17/09/2006 21:23

Hi there, I had a cs for my first because she was breech, and I felt a bit "cheated" I suppose, like I hadn't done it properly. Anyway, when I became pregnant with number two I was determined to have VBAC. My consultant was against because of my age (I was 40) but my midwife was 100% behind me. Anyway, I went 10 days overdue before I was induced and ended up having gas and air, pethidine, epidural and finally ventouse delivery but I didn't care because I delivered my beautiful son vaginally. Stand up to your consultant, this is your baby and you should have a say on how it's delivered! Good luck!

barmybinky · 18/09/2006 01:56

Just remember that they cannot operate on you without your informed consent.......... whether in the UK, or France

Please think about hiring a doula or IM so you can get the support you need during your labour. And make sure your dh is versed in what you will and will not accept too if he is going to be there!

You can do this. Believe in yourself and your body's amazing capabilities
Maria xxx

clobug1 · 18/09/2006 17:49

I had a c-section with my first as she was breech and I didn't fully dilate. Luckily my consultant 2nd time round was fully in favour of VBAC and supported me towards this. At one point I had even planned a home birth and wanted to hire a birthing pool (husband not keen!). However, when it came to it I had a low lying placenta and began to bleed so had to have another emergency c-section.
It was nice to know though that my consultant was supporting me towards the best option for mine and baby's health rather than just opting for a c-section out of hand. Apparently he will also consider VBAC for a 3rd after 2 c-sections which I believe is quite unusual!
With regards breastfeeding after a c-section, I wondered whether it would affect my milk but have had a better experience this time despite not having been in labour when operated on. Last time my milk did not come in at all even though I was part way through my labour before having the op. So I think it just depends?!
To cut a long story short, my theory is, stick up for what you want but don't be disappointed if it can't happen, so long as you and baby are OK, that's the main thing!
Catherine
x

Judy1234 · 18/09/2006 17:55

They can't operate without your consent by the way so you can always refuse it.
I hired an independent midwife and felt in control. If I had been in NHS care they would have induced twins always at 38 weeks. Instead my babies got 2 more weeks of growing time and were born naturally. I feel so pleased I had that choice of decision leaving it to them to choose when to be born.

largeginandtonic · 18/09/2006 19:02

Hope you have gone in to labour by now! If not...

I had an emergency section at 29 weeks with twins. 20 mths later i had dd, i opted for a home birth as i had such a negative attitude at the hosp. I laboured at home all day being able to get in to any position i wanted eat what i wanted and not be hooked up to monitors. DD however got stuck as i pushed her out, had mad dash to hosp, she had fidgeted in to better postion while all this was going on (walk to ambulance, get on bed etc.) and came out fine. Then i had ds 23 mths later at home with a whiff of gas and air (love it)and he came out fine 2, hosp cons was throwing a fit, as i had previous section and dd gave me 3rd degree tear! Went to hops the next day to be stitched, not good. Then had ds4 2 and half years later at home no probs, cons still throwing a fit at the hosp! I just avoided him by this stage. I had to be stitched again but my fab midwife did it at home after i had ds.
So anything possible, im in a new area now so have an entirely new staff to terrify when i say next week i would like baby #6 at home too!!! Next baby due may 3rd.
Hope you feel ok and just remember to believe in yourself you can do it

nowanearlyNicemum · 18/09/2006 20:32

you lot are amazing - a real inspiration!!
I do feel confident in my body and I know what I want. I spoke to a midwife who has worked with my obstetrician in the past and she thinks I caught her on a bad day and should go back and talk to her again. Tomorrow afternoon I will have the pelvic scan (more to humour her than anything else) and then I'll ask to talk to her again.
May not get to that though... am still here but started having some serious contractions at lunchtime. Nothing regular though, very on and off.
thank you so much for making me feel like I'm not being ridiculous or reckless insisting on a 'trial labour'. I just know that if I don't give it a go I'll find it even harder to deal with than my previous emergency c-section.

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lulumama · 18/09/2006 20:54

let us know how you get on ! your baby may well have moved a bit further down since thursday , as you have had a show and lots of contractions , things looking positive xxx

nowanearlyNicemum · 20/09/2006 21:38

had my pelvic scan yesterday afternoon but was unable to see obstetrician afterwards - will have to wait until next Thursday unless she sees something untoward on scan and calls me in before then.
have calmed down a little and am gathering info on the internet to help me discuss things with her 'like a grown up' next week - and not come over as an over-emotional wreck
however, my most convincing argument remains the fact that it's what I want and what I feel that my body is capable of.
thanks for all your support

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nowanearlyNicemum · 27/09/2006 20:02

well I'm still here and no baby in sight yet.
seeing the obstetrician tomorrow lunchtime and am trying not to get too worked up about it... easier said than done when your hormones are completely up the spout
will let you know how I get on...

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