breech at 36 weeks - any advice?

[manna]

I'm 36 weeks with my second child, and it's still breech. I've been booked to go into the hospital at 37 weeks for an ECV (?) - when they try and turn the baby - but have been advised to 'bring the bag' in case I need an emergency c section - apparently there is a slight risk of placental damage or distress with the procedure. What should I do? My first was 10lb 3oz, so I'm worried that if I leave it much longer this one wont have much room left to turn, althuogh I am 6ft tall. The scanner people keep saying it's about normal size, but I hear that the scans are not v. accurate, and anyway, that's what they said last time.....

So - any advice on helping the baby to turn this week? Any advice on ECV's? I really want to avoid a c section if possible, I've got a very lively 2 year old at home!

I was told to get on my hands and knee's with my bum up in the air and lean forward to take the pressure off and let the baby turn. I also had my hubby trying to coax him at the same time and it worked for me. But I was about 35 weeks and he was quite small. Good luck. I hope everythings all right.

acupuncture can work apparently, you need to find someone who specialises in pregnancy (where are you based?) but i've heard this from a number of sources. also i know it sounds really really weird (and you may think it is hippy nonsense) but have you tried asking the baby to turn, i read a book (i think naomi wolf misconceptions) and she really visualised and asked the baby and it did it immediately...worth at least a try?? my midwives said that ECV's were very successful..also remember reading in kitzinger i think about lying with your bump lifted from underneath by pillows so that the baby comes out of the pelvis and may be able to turn (check this one first as i'm not sure of it, i think its in birth your way by sheila kitzinger)...even if all of this is of no help at all, i'm thinking of you, i'm sure that the ECV will be successful: good luck

Hi manna, have you tried pulsatilla? It's a homeopathich remedy which can turn breech babies and it seems to be quite successful. I was told to take it, then lie on an ironing board which was placed against the couch to make a slope (if you see what I mean?) with my head towards the floor and feet up in the air. Sounds deranged but it did work! DS was quite big too (pound less than your first) but turned when I did that. Also lots of time on hands and knees, bag of frozen peas on top of bump, shining light at bottom of bump, tumbles underwater at the swimming pool, and there's always moxabustion (when they burn some kind of herbs near your toes) which apparently has a high success rate too. All worth looking into

Manna, you could try looking up Optimal Foetal Positioning on the internet (I mean Google it) - I had a late scan with DS2 (ie 28-30 wks I think) and was told that he was breech and got in a panic and checked out OFP. Of course that was so early he turned (ie i didn't need to panic), yours sounds rather more concerning as you are 36 wks, but it still might be worth trying. Lots of sites with good advice as I recall. You could always deliver the breech baby vaginally (shock horror) - depends if your hospital is keen, also what kind of breech (ie is it bum or foot) but it doesn't (shouldn't) necessarily mean a section. I know several people who have done it successfully and even with an epiostomy it's better than a section I would say. Controversial I know.

reflexology is proven to work in some cases. Also, lots of time on your hands and knees!!

Manna was in exactly your position 2 yrs ago. My second was breech until two days short of 38 weeks. Little monkey turned all by herself on a car journey. Had to stop the car and get out I was in so much discomfort. Had the c-section all booked etc etc.
Hope yours turns too.

Manna my dd2 was breech and as Clary says, it's possible to have them vaginally! They didn't find out till i was ten days overdue, she was born bottom first and it was a far quicker and easier birth than my first dd who was round the right way! DD1 was breech until 36 weeks but turned by herself.

Just out of interest, in Germany they consider a breech prsentation 'normal' and make no effort to turn. You just do they whole normal labour thing.

Hi Manna - ds was breech until the Monday of week 38, had a scan on the Tuesday and he'd turned. He woke me up in the middle of Monday night and I could see his elbows move - v weird sight. Contractions started that Friday afternoon and he was born on the Sunday lunchtime - emergency c section for completely unrelated reasons.

I did the all fours stuff for ahlf an hour at a time, every couple of hours and I guess it must have made him uncomfortable - he was 8.5 lbs at 38 weeks so a reasonable size I guess. I used to lie on the bed with my arms on cushions, bum in the air and a good book. Not very glamourous, but then who is at 38 weeks?!!?

The best thing about it was that like you I'd been preparing myself for a section, so when I ended up having one anyway I had done my research and was fairly sorted about the whole thing (well as much as you can be). Hope it all works out for you

Manna, acupuncture does have a good record in this; not every time but definite results (the practitioner uses 'moxa' sticks not needles). Contact the British Acupuncture Council on www.acupuncture.org.uk for a list of registered practitioners in your area and then ring them to find out their experience with pregnant women.

thanks for all the advice, everyone. Clary - I don't fancy a vaginal delivery, as the last one was so big, and I can't imagine this one being that much smaller, to make it ok, if you know what I mean. Also, I think the feet are right down, as I occasionally feel like a foot is going to burst out of my bum (!), so I think that's the worst position for natural birth. Also - don't have much confidence in the midwifes having enough experience with birthing breech babies in case anything went wrong. Apparently, there's quite a high incidence of the head sort of flipping up, which is quite dangerous. They need to come down the birth canal with the head tucked right into the chest to prevent damage.

Not sure about the acupuncture - what is the 'spiritual' basis for it's practice? does anyone know what it's all about. I would not like to enter into a type of healing without understanding its roots, if you know what I mean.

So - looks like a lot of bum in the air action, then. I did put his earphones ( I play it Mozart every night!) right down near my pelivis, and it certainly wriggled a lot more, like it was straining to hear the music. Maybe the sound will attract it downwards, who knows??

Acupuncture is part of an entire medical discipline, which believes in energy and 'meridiens' around the body; I think the website's probably got some stuff on it. But it sounds as if you'd not be happy with that and no way would I want to force it on you!

Manna, my little tiny friend had her second child by section when her first was only 18months old and went home after two days (second section) and was perfectly OK.

Hi manna, just picked up this thread. I was found to be breech at 36 weeks, with dd2 (3rd baby).

I tried the lot reflexology, acupuncture (burning smellly stuff on your toes), chiropractic (Websters technique). Hate to say, none of it worked apparently all these techniques work better before 35 weeks, as there's more room to turn. Like you I'm 6 foot and have had big babies, tho' not as big as yours (respect!)

Had ECV at 37 weeks at University College Hospital in London. Everybody'd told me horror stories about it, but in fact it was fine. They put you on a drip of adrenaliney like drug which is ok at first, but does get unpleasant after about one and a half hours, as it makes your heart race and makes you very shaky. The drip is to relax the muscles of your uterus.

When it's taken effect they get two people to come and do the turning, with lots of checking on the ultrasound. One gets their hands under the baby's bum and lifts it out of your pelvis, the other pushes behind the head and they try to persuade it into a forward somersault. It is uncomfortable, particularly at the point where the baby is horizonal to you, but not agony, and it was over very quickly (couple of minutes). They turn the drip off, you feel much better v. quickly, and after an hour of monitoring, off you go home, feeling much more comfy without a great hard head under your ribs.

I was told lots of misleading stuff about ECV which you've probably heard as well (the baby can turn back, it's agony, the placenta can come away etc.) so here are the statistics as UCH told me: (a) the overall success rate is 50% in getting the baby to turn, but much higher in 2nd and subsequent pregnancies (lack of muscle tone, don't you know!) (b) less than 1% of babies turn back again (c) At UCH they do a couple of ECV's per week, and the last time they had to do an emergency c-section was four years ago.

It might be worth checking how experienced the people performing your ECV will be, as it seems to be an art as much as a science, and what the success statistics for your unit are.

In the same situation I would do it again without hesitation. Dd2 was born three weeks later, 9lb 5oz. She's now three and a half months and happy as larry.

Good luck, and keep us updated! Post again if you have any Qs -- I'll keep checking.

hi manna
I had an ECV at 36/37 weeks (can't remember which) but baby did turn back. I also tried lots of other stuff prior to the ECV and none of it worked. however, he did turn back again not long after (bl**dy minded little so and so!)

ECV was totally fine, if a little uncomfortable. I wasn't put on any sort of drip like frogs and it was done by one doctor (head obs guy at the hospital).
My DS was 9lb 13oz and I can see your concerns, dobn't worry about the ECV though - it really wil be fine.

little bugger - turned around the night before the ecv! It took 4 hours of what felt like a strange rugby scrum in my stomach, constant deep wierd movement, then I could go to sleep. Went in yesterday morning and a quick scan to confirm and it was all over! I had my emergency bag packed, nana in to look after ds 1 just in case, the baby room prepared at lightning speed over the weekend, double buggies borrowed, cot beds delivered, the works.

Of course now I've got three more weeks of just twiddling my thumbs, as everythings ready

Thanks for the advice, everyone.