spine to spine

[LaDiDaDi]

My friend is 37wks preg and at the moment her lo is lying spine to spine. Her midwife told her "you are heading for a Keelan's forcepd delivery" ! it is her first baby and this had made her a little worried. We are also both appalled that the midwife said this to her, surely not very encouraging!

So has anyone any experience of a baby changing position from spine-spine or of delivery a baby who was lying spine-spine?

Grrrrrrrr!
I believe there are some positions that can encourage a Baby to get into a better position, think that on all fors is one of them, and sitting on a Gym/Birthing Ball can also help, sitting on sofas in that leaned back way that one does is apparnelty often the culprit for getting them into the wrong direction!
Also lying on the side (left one I think) can help!
Anyway, just because the Baby is back to back does not mean that the Baby won't come out without any help, as long as your friend is encourtaged to labour freely and is given the time she needs...grrrrrrrr at that inconsiderate m/w!
my es was back to back and came out fine and I pushed him out pretty quick, too!

She could try Optimal Foetal Positioning techniques. Lots more if you google it.

I delivered an OP baby - with forceps I'm afraid

Mind you he had been breech previously so it was a definite improvement I suppose.

I think the main thing to remember is that your friend should sit with her pelvis tilted forwards at all times, with hips higher than knees, ie not slumped on a sofa or in a car seat, both of which encourage the foetus to lie back to back. If she spends a lot of time on all fours that may help, and get a wedge for sitting on sofa or in car, so that her hips are higher than her knees.

Good luck. I think a trick for encouraging baby to turn during labour is to walk up and down stairs sideways, so your pelvis is sort of swaying from side to side, or to walk along a kerb with one foot in the gutter and one on the pavement. I wasn't diagnosed with an OP baby until he was actually born, so I didn't try any of these at the time.

That link is brill...but lol at sleeping on your tummy...hehe especially with last ds I would have been a good half meter away from teh matress, lmao!

DS1 was spine to spine

I ast on the toilet slightly lent forward the whole time which helped loads. Had normal delivery with no forcepts etc, no tears, 2.5 hours

So its not always bad.

Good luck to your friend.

Shouldnt say Tears. Should say the present word for Tore but my mind has turned to mush and cant spell it!

had one of these, dd. It was not actually diagnosed until 36 hours into labour (-ds, born 22 months earlier, took 55 minutes)

BUT no forceps. It was pretty painful, but she got herself out of there on her own.

My brother was also spine to spine, he was a (long) home birth.

One thing, and I am not one to recommend arnica and so forth, but dd has had ongoing major sleep problems due to the birth and cranial osteopathy has helped a bit. Have only just got round to it (she's 14 months) but the earlier the better. Her skull and pelvis are slightly compacted, apparently, causing background pain and super-grumpy colicky baby. This is meant to be common in spine to spine babies.

My dd2 was in that position and was born at home, with no intervention, no drugs, no nothing. It is IMO a harder way to give birth (dd1 was in optimum position so I can compare) but with the help of skilled midwives, I was able to give birth at home. I'm horrifiesd that the midwife said this to her, because there is every chance that the baby will turn into a better position, and even if it doesn't, a natural delivery is still possible. Even if the baby is forceps born, this isn't neccesaary the worst thing that can happen. Try and reassure your friend because going into labour terrified will not help.

My dd1 (first baby) was OP - turned into that position in labour! 37 hours and ventouse delivery, but she was almost 10lb so I was very happy with the result.
Ds and dd2 were both OA and very easy in comparison.

My first was OP, I had a perfectly fine labour and delivery!

I had an episiotomy, pethedine and gas and air, exactly the same as with second child, who wasn't OP.

Good luck to your friend!!

my sister's first was OP, but she turned around during delivery.

Personally, I think her midwife is right to warn her of the potential problems, rather than gloss over everything (as midwifes are prone to do).

My fourth came down and out OP. I wouldn't recommend it. It's quite rare though I gather and the early contractions will often sort it out. The MWs reckoned mine stayed op because he was the fourth and their was so much, ahem, room for him to get out.

Highlander...there is a difference between giving info and just scarring the crap out of a mum though, and the info she should have given her patient/client was how to optimise the position of the Baby, etc...!

My DD was OP - she turned that way as I went into labour. It was a very long and painful labour, but I did manage to get her out unassisted - all be it after 6hrs pushing!!

my ds was spine-spine, and I'm not an inspiring story I'm afraid - 50 hours of very painful labour, and I only ever dilated to 7 - 8cms, and ds went into distress so I ended up with a crash cs (that's one under general anaesth.)

I agree that it's hardly inspiring of the midwife to put it like that, and there are obviously lots of stories of people who do have natural deliveries with this situation; but I do believe the facts are that it can lead to a longer, more prolonged delivery as the baby has to turn more than a baby in the ideal position. So I do feel it's important for your friend to know this, so that she can make plans and ensure her birth partner is aware how best to help.

Personally, I think for me the key would have been encouragement, encouragement, encouragement. Unfortunately my mw's were pretty crap and I do not remember ONE encouraging thing being said to me during labour by them. I think your friend needs to ensure she tells her helpers, and writes all over her birth plan, that she is aware she may have a longer and more painful labour so could staff remember this and support her and encourage her to keep going, and that she IS doing well even if nothing is happening to show for her pain. I do believe this could make a difference to how she deals with the pain.

Another one back to back here that went well. Established labour to birth in 5.5 hours. I stood up and leant on my dh throughout and managed just on gas and air.

Had an OP delivery, with forceps after failed ventouse. The baby was in a good position until I went into labour and then turned OP (all those hours leaning over a swiss ball and sitting forward were pointless!!)

On the plus side it was a relatively short labour for an OP baby - 13.5 hours. I went from 3 to 10 cm dilated in just a few hours. It was excruciatingly painful, but I wasn't allowed any pain relief. It would have been manageable with pain relief. The pushing bit lasted 4 hours. To be honest the incompetence of the midwives and medical staff made it far, far worse than it should have been.

A friend of mine had an OP baby and swore by the TENS machine (as its obviously worn on the back). It might be worth a try.

I really hope your friends baby turns. With good care it probably won't be too bad.

Oh yeah, the Tens machine works brill for backlabour....I used that with ds1, who was op and it deifnately took the edge of the pain!

Hi there, had two OP (spine to spine) babies, first was a long labour but baby rotated in labour so all was well in the end, second one was actually born in direct OP so she came out sunny side up - normally babies are born facing your bum but she came out face to pubes - kind of cool. No problems there either. I'm a doula as well as an antenatal teacher and I have supported loads of women through back labours - would be happy to chat/e-mail with your friend with some ideas (before anyone gets upset this is not an advert as I'm not actually working at the moment!). I think her midwife is being very unsupportive, not to mention scaremongering. In any case, baby's position at 37 weeks bears very little on what position baby will decide to adopt then it comes to being born. Good luck to her and let me know if she needs any more info/ideas.

Thanks for your responses. I have alerted my friend to this thread so hope that she reads it and gets some support from your experiences.