Scarred baby following forceps delivery.

[millymoomoo]

I am new to Mumsnet and have never used a forum such as this before, so please bear with me if I'm not making much sense! (Also have clingy, teething seven-month-old on my lap!) I have been amazed by the vast array of subjects and experiences shared on Mumsnet and noticed a recent ?'thread'(!) about forceps deliveries. My baby was delivered by forceps - with the usual barbarity - and consequently has a number of scars over her head and face. Most will fade, I imagine, but she has an obvious dent on her cheekbone that will be permenent. I wonder if anybody else has had a similar experience? The paediatrician who saw my baby said she'd had to suture wounds to newborns inflicted from forceps in the past... My baby is still absolutely beautiful despite her arrival into the world!

My dd1 was delivered by forceps, they missed her eye by literally mm she was very lop sided and bruised looking, but it all thankfully sorted itself out......

Congratulations ...

Hi millmoomoo - welcome to MN
I have a 4 year old DS with a forceps scar on his head - fortunately is hair covers it now but I'm sure when he gets to middle age and goes bald it will be noticeable again.
I guess they have to hold on tight and pull hard to get those awkward babies out! I'm sure your daughter is beautiful

Hi & welcome Millymoomoo! You will be an addict before you know it!!

I was really interested to see your post as I have a 2 year old boy who was delivered by caesarean but 'dragged' out by forceps. For his fiorst few days he had a big purple bruise on his cheekbone that showed the exact outline of the forceps... he still has a big dent there when he laughs but I had convinced myself that it wasn't from the forceps. Reading your post however, I wonder of maybe it was from his delivery? Have you been told that your dd's 'dent' will be permanent?

Thanks for your replies! Yes, Zephyrcat, my DD's 'dent' will be permenent. It sounds similar to your DS's as it's for more noticable when she laughs. Fortunately it's not too big so will probably be minimised as she grows. Your experience sounds pretty horrific.
Fuzzywuzzy, thank goodness your baby is ok. I am acutely aware that things could have been far worse, so I consider her scars - like my pregnancy stretch marks and varicose veins - a trophy of her courage!!

My son was delivered by forceps - he had a big bruise on each cheek. I think the ventouse caused more damage though - his entire head was 1 big bruise. It left him unconscious with very bad jaundice and spent 10 days having phototherapy.

I took him to an osteopath which helped him a lot. He pointed out he had a mis-shaped head - it is about 1cm smaller on 1 side.

Fortunately he doesn't seem to have sustained any long-term damage.

I have looked on the internet about side-effects of forceps & ventouse deliveries. I read one news report on the BBC website that said a study had shown forceps babies have a higher rate of suidide, which could either be caused by brain damage or because of bonding problems between baby and mother. I was also a forceps baby and can believe the bonding problem - I remember my Mum saying she didn't bond with me properly due to the delivery. There also seem to be a risk of haematomas forming. Not to mention the damage to me.

Thanks millymoomoo - I might have to look into that now!

Hi MumtoBen. I can fully appreciate difficulties with bonding. I was having my baby at home, but had to be transferred to hospital as I couldn't push my DD out (due to the cord being tightly 'round her neck - it had to be cut before she could be 'dragged' out). I hadn't set foot in hospital during my pregnancy and it was a total shock when I ended up there. Whilst at home I was having a wonderful experience, empowered and relaxed, but once transferred things changed! Don't get me wrong, though, as I needed to be there and am extremely grateful for the help and my beautiful baby. I will never forget, however, the realisation that the bloody mess I was handed at the end of it all was not because DD hadn't been cleaned, but because most of the skin on her face had been grazed off! I was totally unprepared for this. Hubby was also left pretty traumatised.
I was not aware of the long-term potential problems - particually psychologically, although it does make sense. I have been so fortunate to have had no difficulties bonding with my baby.

Hi millymoomoo, I also didn't have any problems bonding and glad you didn't either. I think it was partly due to my determination not to let thing happen to my baby as happened to me and my Mum.

I too was very shocked at the state of my son after delivery. I am still shocked now when I look at the photos of him as a newborn as he looks so poorly. I don't imagine most forceps babies look as bad as mine though, as I found out much later that they had not followed the guidelines of allowing 3 pulls only (we had 5).

My husband is also terrified of another birth last the one I had.

Out of interest - did you have an epidural for the birth? And how did the skin get grazed off your daughter's face???

Another thing that I thought of. I used to work in a hospital in clinical audit. I did an audit with a consultant around informed consent. They are supposed to explain the significant risks to you before you can consent to an operation/procedure etc.

None of the risks of an operative vaginal delivery were explained to me at the time.

I wondered if anyone else had the risks explained to them, prior to a forceps delivery?

When I got to the hospital the Consultant said I would go to theatre for a caesarian. Another doctor took over once there who asked if I would prefer it if she tried to get baby out with ventouse. My blood pressure had dropped quite low and I had really had enough (I was told at 9am - at home - that I would have baby by half past. I was then not able to. Transferred to hosp. early afternoon and didn't end up having her until 6pm). I agreed to ventouse - would have consented to anything by that time! - but as far as I am aware she didn't use them, just forceps. I have no idea how many 'pulls' she tried, but my husband tells me she had her foot on the end of the bed as she tugged! I was told I had a spinal anasthetic in preparation for caesarian (is that the same as an epidural?)
My baby had cuts on her head, some really quie deep and no skin either side of her face on her cheeks. She looked awful! I never got more of an explanation than I've written here.
How terrifying, MumtoBen, if your baby was unconscious. Mine screamed shortly after birth and I will NEVER EVER forget the relief as I knew then she was ok...
Interesting about the guidelines - I was certainly unaware.

I have to say I'm really shocked at the way your babies were 'treated' and the injuries they gained from forceps.

I have had 3 caesareans and not once had any mention of forceps - never been told that they'd be used, or the possible effects on the baby from using them, let alone any sort of rules guidelines being pointed out.

Does anyone know if it is standard procedure to use forceps during CS?

With my first dd i couldn't push her out and they were worried as when they'd broke my waters there was thick meconium and wanted her out now!
They tried forceps and i can honestly say out of both Births the most painful part was that. They put them in (or attempted to) and i just screamed. The Doctor said 'it will hurt' and i said' no it REALLY hurts get them OUT'.
I pusehd her out next push out of fear i think. Reading this i am so glad i did! I didn't know all this about forceps!

So glad all your babies were o.k though if battered and bruised

DD doesn't have forceps scars. She was born by c section after a failed induction. She did however have scarring and cuts to her head from where they tried to break my waters, unsuccessfully for a while. I think these have all gone now though - she is now 4yo and has hair all over.

DH as to small dints in his scalp - one to front and one near back at side - from where he was born rather forceably with forceps.

I had only had gas and air btw!

I was born with forceps too and have a large dint on the side of my head. My mum also tells me I wouldn't stop crying either. I reckon I probably had a permanent headache. I don't think they did Cranial Oesteopathy in the early 70's.

I find it incredible that these babies - and us mums! - can cope with so much!!

Millymoo, Just to clarify, I think my baby was OK when he came out, and conscious (although I had blacked out for an hour so am not sure). He was born at midnight and fed in the early hours twice. He was found to be unconsious by the mid-afternoon. I just thought he was asleep and had been asleep a long time. They took him away from me for a few hours in the night and I am sure that this was because they were concerned after the birth we had. No one else's baby was taken away on my ward.

I had many problems feeding him for the next few days as I couldn't keep him conscious. And I had to make sure he didn't go more than 3 hours without a feed.

Like you the pulling was in my opinion excessive. The doctor used full body weight to pull and ended up falling off the chair.

Angeliz - I too know the agony of a forceps delivery. It was far more painful than the ventouse and contractions. I can't put it into words how painful it was. I too only had G&A which did nothing.

Another thought was a woman in my antenatal also had a forceps delivery and was discharged doubly-incontinent. She was sent home with her baby unconscious with jaundice. Fortunately she was a nurse and realised something was wrong and headed straight to A&E (the hospital refused to have her back). She believed her baby would have died if she wasn't a nurse. I never found out how things ended up for her as she moved from the area and didn't keep in contact.

this is even scarier

"Sylvester Stallone was a difficult birth, yanked from his mother's womb by a doctor's forceps that severed a facial nerve. As a result, the lower left side of his face is paralyzed, including parts of his lip, tongue, and chin, an accident which has given Stallone his trademark snarling look and slightly slurred speech"

You could visibly see the outline of a pair of forceps on my DS's head for a very long time after he was born and they have definatley shapped his head for good, although you wouldn't now think they were caused by forceps amd it isn't noticeable.

This was a real issue for me. Not because of how it looked. He was and still is the most beautiful little person in the world. But, I felt I had let him down by allowing them to use them. I had had a very touch and go labour due to low lying placenta. This was on the back of a 9 day hospital stay in which I had been climbing up the walls worrying about the birth. I spent the entire labour tethered to a bed via a heart monitor and scared out of my wits that I would heomorrage any moment (which probably was the case but was the impression Id been given). I got rushed off for a CS because DS's heart rate fluctuated badly. The were about to opererate but his heart beat recovered and stayed fine for about 20 mins as the labour progessed. Two consulants had a row about what to do with me at the foot of the table and then consultant two just said he was going to use forceps. I told him to go ahead and do whatever he felt best - and THAT is what I thought about every time I looked at those dents on DS's head. I had NO FORCEPS in caps on my birth plan, but DP was out of the room and they already started using them when he came back.

It took me a very long time to get over the feelings of anger and guilt. The drugs I took, along with forceps were the reason it took 4 touch days in hospital before I managed to get him to breastfeed - but that's another story. So I just felt like a useless mother who had let my baby down in his first moments.

I am now just grateful that he's OK. They did put an end to a very scarey labour. If they hadn't used them would his heart have fluctuated again and would I have had a C-section? Who knows? I've often asked myself If I could go back, would I even dare to do anything different?

They definaltey save lives, but I think they are pretty brutal things and should only be used in a real emergency. If ventuse is better, why can't they phase them out or just keep them on reserve?

Sorry to hear about your XP millymoomoo, but please dont feel like you are alone. Your baby is beautiful, I'm sure and congratulations x x x

Tigertum - I too think they should not be used except in genuine emergency situations. Try not to feel too bad that they used forceps even though you had said No Forceps. I too didn't want forceps under any circumstances, but I was given no choice. I was barely able to speak by this point and remember saying "No, No". My birth plan was lost.

I heard that the doctor who did my delivery 'likes doing forceps deliveries'. I bet he never does one of his wife / girlfriend.

I was disappointed at the number of interventions I ended up with - injection to numb area, episiotomy, then drip with chemical to try and restart contractions, then ventouse, then catheter, then forceps. They said it would all be over in 10 minutes, but it took 50 minutes. 50 minutes of being tortured.

I tore internally and had an internal haematoma. I was in agony for about a week. They wouldn't give me any pain relief, so I had to get my husband to bring some tablets in from home. It took 16 months to heal.

MumtoBen

That's awful.

It's the insensitivity that gets me. Do they forget that we have to live with the decisions and experiences they make for us when we are so vunerable?

Consultant 'likes forceps deliveries'? Grrrrr.

SOrry but I now have to have a rant on insensitivity in hospitals...

Insentivity like, after the birth, I had two vacent drip needle things in each hand and had had an episotomy. I couldn't sit myself up without putting pressure on both hands which really hurt. I asked time and time again for them to be removed but noone bothered for about 5 hours. The same people who told me I couldn't have a breastpump - without any explanation and left me, after all that had happened, hand expressing tiny drops of colestrum for hours into a thimble to siringe into my babies mouth. This continued for about 2 days until I broke down and asked to leave - senior midwife noticed that my son was, despite all the help I'd asked for, very dehydrated. Oh yes, not to forget the other womans blood on the toilet seat in my hospital (cleaned) hospital room. Not the most enchouraging sight for a first time mum admitted due to risk of heamorrage. This really set the precident for cleanleness as a night or two after giving birth I had to move rooms because of cockroaches. You couldn't make it up!!! Phew - rant over now. Sorry for hijaking this thread, but I think allot of this treatment is due to insensitivity and bad staff going unchecked. There are some amazing people in hospitals but from my experiences they just mop up after the crap ones have done the damage.

(Tigermum I too had a vacant drip needle left in my wrist after my last CS. I asked over and over for it to be removed but they kep tsaying "Someone will come and do it for you" and never did. I had to put my full weight on my hands to get myself up as i couldn't use my legs/stomach so it was absolute agony and I now have a scar on my wrist where it had started to get infected. )

(should have said it was in there for just over 2 days )

hello everyone it sounds horrible what you all went through, i have to say that with ds who is 5 now i didnt have forceps or anything else just gas and air but the birth traumatised me i still have nightmares now

ds was 2weeks over so i went in on the wednesday afternoon to be induced by midnight still nothing so they induced again (would not let dp stay with me) early hours thursday morning started labour very slowly so they decided to induce me again i was on a ward with other pregnant women who were either bleeding or low bp the nurses were awful i was in a lot of pain and all they offered me was paracetimol, dp came thusday day and was told to leave early afternoon (inbetween this was induced AGAIN) thursday night was in a lot of pain asked for dp nurse tells me no i ask again and she says fine use the telephones down stairs! i had to go 6 floors to phone dp by the time he got here i was in real pain this continued till 11:50 friday night when i was finally taken to a delivery ward.

I was in that much pain i thought i was going to die ds heart beat dropped low their was no midwifes in the room dp had to run round the corridors to find them at this point i was blacking out cant rerember much except thinking i was going to diesome how at 3:47 ds was corn with no other instuments after i was sent for a shower and the midwife was told to wait with me you guessed it she left me allalone i collapsed on the floor for my mom to walk in and find me my mom washed me dressed me did everything at 3;30 i told them me and ds was going home and we were discharged i didnt want to be their for another min.

The sad thing is we want another baby but im to scared to go through that again

zephyrcat, it is standard procedure to use forceps during a c\s. My last caesarean was elective, and I asked for forceps not to be used due to dd2 being pulled out a little too roughly IMO. The consultant told me that they often have no other way of getting the baby out if the head is well engaged. Luckily, dd3 shot out of her own accord, and is the only one who doesn't seem to need cranial osteopathy.