Should women have to PAY for********epidurals********....................watch the ITV1 news .............NOW

[RTKangaMummy]

now

Ah, but do they want to? And is that for the midwives to decide?

I think it is the midwives role to present us with the options and let the mum decide what she wants.

BTW, I think intervention is under used. Some people have damaged babies because intervention didn't get there fast enough -- or didn't get there at all.

Don't we already have choice for pain relief?! Never understand what politicians are on about...!
Shocking.

Can I just check Im reading this right, cos ive skipped thru this thread,
MW are suggesting that women in labour are supposed to weigh up the pro's and con's of the epidural, whether they can or cant afford it, do they have to pay b4 they have the epidural {tongue in cheek emotion}

While they are in the worst agony you can experience they need to make the decision, or will it be up to their DP/DH who seeing them in this pain will have an equally tough decision.

I wanted sterilising during my last CS but was told that they would not do it as I wasnt emotionally able to make that decision as I was pregnant. But they would expect someone in labour to be able to make a decision about paying for an epidural.

I can see it now "oh Im sorry love you cand have an epidural, you didnt sign for one before you went into labour" OMG

Where will it stop???

Sorry for my rant just get a bit cross sometimes

Uwila's right, can you imagine the treatment not being exempt thanks to the maternity exemption certificate thingy?
This is all just bluster, I'd ignore it if I were you.
If they go down the route where some analgesia is private and some isn't they would open a huge can of worms. So they won't.

at the idea of being taken care of by gps and consultants though Uwila! I know you have your reasons but omg the obs/gynae lot I met were not conducive to a happy delivery!

Just musing...

It's all such a grey area, even for the woman requesting an epidural. I was at home, where it obviously wasn't an option, but there was a point where the pain was constant and excruciating and I was to be found sobbing on the bed (in so far as I had the energy to sob). I didn't verbalise this, but I really thought I couldn't do it anymore and had I had access to an epidural, I might have begged for one. Of course, it would have been too late because I was in transition - and having ridden that out, it then got easier as I got the urge to push. My midwife suggested things to ease the pain for a while (involving hot water bottles) until I was through the worst. This was absolutely the right thing for me.

In this scenario, I'd taken drug-based pain relief out of the equation by staying at home. Had my midwife asked if I wanted to transfer, I'd have said no. However, in hospital, it's a question (I imagine) of the midwife's perception of your pain and whether it's really what you want in the long-term. My impression is that so many do this by telling women off as though they were naughty, lazy, failing schoolchildren, rather than women who need to be helped through the darkest bits. And how can they make this call, when they've probably never met you before...??

I'm not in any sense advocating payment for any aspect of maternity care or treatment in an NHS situation, but it might serve to remind some staff who should be calling the shots in this situation and who's providing the service.

Incidentally - everyone is outraged by this suggestion, but the same situation effectively applies in end-of-life pain relief situations. Good palliative care is scarce in the NHS. There's a chronic lack of understanding by medical and nursing staff of what terminally ill people are facing mentally and physically - and most hospices are funded by charity.

hmmm.

having giiven birth both ways I would say that epidurals are highly over-rated and if they cost 500 quid then I can see where the midwives are coming from.

On balance I don't believe they should start charging for them though, but I do think that it should be debated fully and not dismissed out of hand like some of you have. How about they charge for elective cesearians?

Ooo - that's going to be a contentious one...

I suspect that the number of women having elective caesareans because they're 'too posh to push' is very small. Before attempting to bring down the caesarean rate, I think it's necessary to change the culture surrounding birth in this country. From what I've seen of NHS maternity unit, they're completely antithetical to normal, physiological, labour...

are you kidding? try giving birth in a spanish hospital!

Can I just check if it will apply the other way round? If they mismanage a birth and you end up with an assisted delivery that they admit you wouldn't have otherwise needed can you expect a payment of £500? If so I will await my cheque.

Also, can we expect other forms of pain relief to be available then? I was denied all pain relief for the whole of my 1st stage of labour. Even gas and air.

I had a failed ventouse and then a forceps delivery with no epidural and I blacked out from the pain and lost the 1st precious hour of my son's life. Can I charge for this please? It is worth £1million to me.

I agree with Eenywifemum - I already pay for my healthcare through NI and tax, it is not free.

I think to charge for them is unfair. It's basically saying 'if you're poor, take the pain'.
However, if they said they were only giving them in special cases because of medical reasons and they showed (which i think they are trying to) that they actually make women receive more intervention than is nesseccary, then i do think that would be a better choice.
I think more natural is good but talking about charging for them kind of minimises the whole point of the reasons why they are doing it. IYSWIM!!
I have given Birth twice with gas and air but both times it was 3-4 hours. If i had gone for lots lots longer then i'm sure i would have needed more.

SenoraPostrophe: No, not kidding. But I appreciate that there are places in the world that still do enemas, shaving and routinely use lithotomy stirrups... Go on - horrify me...

The RCM conference delegates voted (overwhelmingly) against any motion to charge for epidurals, by the way...

Both my children were born with epidurals, first due to a long, long labour where I was physically exhausted not to mention sleep-deprived, second because i was rigged up to monitors as i was induced. Going from 2-10 cm in ONE hour while on my back was quite possibly the most hideous thing I've EVER had to go through. The MWs on duty tut-tutted to each other when i screamed for an epidural and one of them actually said, 'what do you want one of them for?' They were so busy slagging other members of staff off (yes this is absolutely true!) while I was constantly gasping on the gas and air tube they didn't notice that i was in actually in transition by the time the epidural was fitted!

Another two midwives took over at that point and said afterwards that it was one of the loveliest births they had done and was much much more pleasant for them than having to watch a woman screaming in pain!!

And that bonding thing is TOTAL BOLLOCKS and totally insulting. I bonded immediately with both my girls the minute i saw them and it's been love love love ever since!

found in translation, i too gave birth in germany to my first baby and i was induced. the pain was unbearable and after trying pethidine equivalent and massage the MW offered me an epidural even though i was still onlt 2cm. it enabled me to get some sleep which actually prevented the need for CS as i was so exhausted, i didnt need any help with delivery and found it fantastic that i could still move around but be pain free. after the pain i initially felt i would be terrified of labour again if i knew i couldnt have an epidural. i think the idea to pay for one is disgusting, as how can anyone else tell how much pain you are in, everyones pain threshold is different, and especially when some MW havnt had kids, how the hell do they know how painful it is! i dont know what the epidurals are like in UK but maybe if they used the same ones as in germany where women can still be active then the need for intervention may drop.

Grrrrrrrr. This is obviously the brainchild of someone who has never given birth.

I didn't plan to have an epidural, but ended up begging for one and almost proposed to the anethatist when he gave me one. Even though it didn't bloody well work for more than 10 mins before all the pain came back - one ONE side of my body. Eurghh!

I had a closely monitiored birth due to a low lying placenta. I was told I had a 50/50 chance of having an emergancy section because of placental ditachment. I basically couldn't walk around because of the fetal monitor and 9 days in hospital with nothing to do but worry about the risky birth I was going to have left me in no state at all to cope with the situtation - let alone the pain! Money shouldn't come into it with situations like this.

I had all the dissadvantagesd of the epidural - plugged into machines, bed-bound, immobile, catheterised etc and all the pain. But, I wouldn't rule out having one again because I've learned than you can't plan births just educate yourself as much as possible and hope that it will go your way.

It's a rediculous idea. Totally and utterly unethical. In full blown labour most women would sell their house in return for something to take the pain away. And as for making a decision in advance, you have no idea how well your going to cope with the pain until well into the labour. I think it depends on how well it goes and how well you cope.

I personally did not want an epidural but after an extremely painful 26 hours of induced labour (coped with TENS up to this point) and still no waters broken and hardly dilating I was so exhausted that I made the decision to have an epidural for the sake of the baby as I wanted to make sure that I could have a small break from the pain and recoup some of my energy to be able to deliver my dd without any problems. The midwife had previously given me pethidine but it made me so sick that I could not have any more. I did only have the epidural to get me through the transition stage and then once it wore off I never bothered to have it topped up as I found the actual pushing part not too bad. Some people might say that it was a waste of time having it but it got me through about 3 hours of absolute agony, it did not take away the pain completely but it certainly helped. I am sure that most women do not take the decision to have an epidural lightly, yes there may be the odd few who assume its the norm to have one and those who are too posh to push etc but I'm sure most women would not have one unless they were absolutely desperate as most women are aware that epidurals carry risks and they are not the most pleasant thing to have administered anyway. There was a girl in hospital with me who started in labour a few hours before me and she ended up having to have a caesarian because she could not cope with the pain any more and she'd been begging for an epidural but could not get one due to lack of anaesthetist, and by the time he was available things had gone too far and the baby was seriously distressed and she physically could not push her baby out due to sheer exhaustion. I think in her case an epidural earlier on could have possibly spared all that. Women need support throughout pregnancy and labour and should be entitled to make the choice regarding pain relief. It should not be dependant on the size of your wallet. I really hope that the government does not go down this path.

No. End of.

Even my (male)obstetrician said that if men gave birth pain relief in labour would be better! And men would DEF have epidurals!

PS haven't read thread as too tired.

Ms Macdonald added: "Epidurals have become a kind of norm for a lot of women.

"Sometimes women think 'I just want to get rid of the pain, how fantastic'."

• what's wrong with that?????

I had a epidural even though I did not really want it, what I desperate for was some attention and it was the only way I was assured of getting it (a MW has to stay with you). Gas and air was making me violently sick and I had an overwhelming urge to start pushing even though I was only 5 cm dilated. The pain wasn't the worst aspect of what was happening it was the feeling of total loss of control, some one-on-one care was the most pressing need but I never got it due to staff shortages. I felt abandoned and desperate and took the epidural for the attention, the pain relief being a bonus tacked on. I ended up with an emergency section and a week long stay in hospital.

The service on paper and the service delivered were worlds apart. Overall quality of care is the overriding issue, sort that out and the rest will follow.

During pregnancy, I was offered to meet with an anaesthetist because I had a bad reaction to an anaestesia during a surgery years ago. He was one of the nicest person I met during my pregnancy and was very reassuring about the benefits of the epidural, and said plainly to me - I don't really understand why midwives don't communicate the benefits of an epidural, just the dangers. He checked my spine, explained exactly how and where the needle would go in, how an epidural works, how I would feel afterwards, why in some cases it might not work, etc etc. I wasn't really intending to have an epi but it was very reassuring to know that I knew what to expect if I'd ask for one.

A the end, I had to be induced because late by 14 days, a fever developed after 6 hours labour, epidural after 12 hours, baby presented back-to-back, and after another 12 hours doc tried to pull the baby with a ventouse but this failed so I ended up with an emergency c section. Looking back, having an epidural was the best decision I made during labour.

I think that epidurals should be free obviously, and that we should receive much more information about how they work. But to be honest, if I could pay for one to ensure that I would receive it without grief, without anyone judging me, without having to wait ages for the anaesthetist to arrive, without having to take other drugs (I hated gas and air made me sick) I WOULD pay for it. Sorry.

Mimixx

having a tooth out isn't the same though is it?

In a normal labour, the pain builds up gradually so your body has a chance to get used to it. and if the labour is normal (i.e. not induced and not unusually long) then there is no need for an epidural and since they can cause problems, perhaps they should be discouraged (though maybe not via payment).

excellent user name btw, belgianbun.

This is really amazing. I had my 3 kids in 3 different countries - none in the UK, and the anaesthetist turned up at the same time I got to the clinic on all 3 occasions, to let me know he was there ready to give me an epidural within 5 minutes whenever I might want one. I don't remember anyone telling me I should take up the offer, but you bet I did every time!! They were the 3 best days of my life by miles and miles, and I can't imagine I'd be saying that if I hadn't had the epidurals - I had enough contractions to know exactly how bad it can get. More like chopping your arm off than pulling a tooth.

I think it's terrible that women in the UK are somehow made to think it's more of an achievement to give birth without pain relief. That's the kind of thing the Pope might get away with saying, but it's entirely inappropriate for an NHS spokesperson. Give women information and let them choose what suits them and their contractions.