Should women have to PAY for********epidurals********....................watch the ITV1 news .............NOW

[RTKangaMummy]

now

OOps, news item

First it made me want to cry, remembering my 50 hours of agony during which I begged, pleaded and cried for some pain relief...

then it made me laugh. No worries for me if they did want to charge, I'd have paid ANYTHING. I'd have given them my house, my car!! I even offered to pay for an anaesthetist to be brought in for me!!!!!!!!

Seriously though it is a despicable idea. If they want to campaign about something to help they should campaign for more midwives and better training in how to actually support mothers during labour.

I was refused post op (c section) pain relief I'd been written up for. left literally crying with pain in middle of night. Apparently due to ward being busy......I asked on 5 occasions for the pain relief and was denied by m/w on duty. I made a formal complaint but would never contemplate another baby and am actively afraid of ever going into hospital again.
I had to have an epidural during previous labour - labour did'nt progress and was not spotted by m/w........again "very busy". Presentation hopeless so had failed ventouse and forceps. Presentation problem not picked up because no one examined me properly. POssibly bit too busy? How very silly of me to keep having babies when inconvenient for m/w.

I think this epidural debate demonstrates how little midwives care about the welfare of the women they are supposed to be supporting.
If we had proper midwifery in this country more women would have easier labours.
An epidural is not given as an extra or a frill.
Hospital staff who withold pain relief should be sacked.

Awen and Girlymomma, at your stories. I thought my birth was bad till I discoverd Mumsnet and read horrible stories like yours, usually involving sadistic midwives refusing pain relief.

Uwila, I agree that if they make epidurals harder to get, it will increase rather than decrease the number of women going for C-sections.

I was refused an epidural with the birth of my first son.
He got stuck and the aneasthetist was ready to give me an epidural, so that the doctor could try forceps, to avoid an emergency cs. The doctor with the forceps refused, I ended up with an emergency cs, with G.A.
It makes my blood boil with anger.
How the heck are you suipposed to take the pain of forceps with out an epidural.
I firmly believe that being denied an epidural, meant that I had to have a c-section under G.A.
STUPID!

To me the bit that leapt out was the NCT line: "This would be adding insult to injury when women are often denied access to other options that would help them cope during labour."

I had a long and excruciating labour without an epidural. Didn't want one. That was my choice. I was also at home, with my own birth pool, hot water and ice packs applied to the small of my back, able to walk around my garden etc. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but this is more the kind of environment that will enable (some / more)women to labour without drug based pain relief. Until supportive one-to-one care can be guaranteed for every woman in labour, in a private, comforting and comfortable environment, then no midwife can dictate what kind of pain relief a woman should have. And any one that does deserves to get her eyes scratched out...

Why is it that certain women always stick the knife in to others? When I was being induced I did eventually get an epidural after 24 hrs of agony but I was refused a section by the mw until dd1 nearly died. Before I had the epidural the pain was so bad that if someone had given me a gun I would have quite happily shot myself. And teh things I was saying...it was so traumatic.

This would just create a two-tier health service, where those that can pay get the birth of their choice and those that can't either endure agony or get into debt. I really thought that midwives were on our side whatever their individual faults might be, but it seems not.

At least this chap seems to have a brain

Dr Paul Cartwright, a consultant anaesthetist at Derby City general hospital and spokesman for the Royal College of Anaesthetists, said: “It is not productive pain or controlled pain. It is horrifying pain and it can go on for a long time.”

Here here.

I didn't have an epidural for any of mine, because I was too scared the first time, and the last time there "weren't enough staff". Apparently you have to have someone with you the whole time (is this the crux of the matter?) and there was only 1 midwife on for 5 women in labour..

The middle two babies were delivered by wonderful, sympathetic midwives but the other two were downright horrible. Perhaps if the midwives were a little more caring then fewer mothers would need epidurals? Just a thought.

Had an epidural with ds, hadn't 'wanted' one, in fact it had been thought it wouldn't work because I have scoliosis, but I was having a hard time and we were going into the third day of contractions with very, very slow dilation so the MW asked if I'd like to try one. She was brilliant, the anaesthetist was brilliant, it worked a treat, possibly slowed down contractions and contributed to needing ventouse but almost certainly speeded dilation due to me being more relaxed. No suggestion of me being denied it. It's a hideous thought that someone in my position but unable to pay might have to go through that (including the very protracted stitching of the episiotomy afterwards) without. A friend of mine who also had one for her birth said it had made her feel human again within minutes. That's the effect it had on me too.

This was in Germany. I had crap bf advice afterwards on the ward, but the birth - despite being difficult by anyone's measure - was so much more bearable due to the wonderful, supportive, professional people I had around me. I read some MNers' birth stories and feel, tbh, very grateful I was over here for the birth.

How would they define 'definite need' of an epidural? The potential for abuses and power trips is enormous.

In order not to have a heart attack over this I am just going to assume that the newspapers have misquoted or misrepresented what was said, in order to get a huge response like this.

The only doula I interviewed with talked about a study on sheep, where sheep who had epidurals bonded less with their lambs than those who didn't. At this point I decided not to employ her.

Totally with RedZuleika.

acnebride...good call, who the fuck is studying post natal sheep? The woman was probably completely off her tree.
I had 2 emergency C sections, both after epidurals, first one after a prolongued attempt at a home birth. I'd be suing for a refund as the first one I had worked to relieve the contractions, but not the actual operation. Second time round it worked a treat. I'd have loved to have home births, but it wasn't to be. Second time round I asked for an epidural after about 2 hours of labour, and got one no hastle. I can't believe they're taking this line about it. Tell whoever made the proposal to get their teeth pulled without anaesthetic ( grin)

like others, this makes me furious, and seems to be completely anti mothers and anti women. Labour pain has been recognised as being a proper, bloody painful pain. There would be no other situation where someone would be denied or asked for pain relief, so why a woman in labour?

Imagine a scenario where people were asked to have their leg amputated using deep breathing and relaxation techniques without anaesthetic! Birth pain may be natural, but so is dying and terrible pain from 'natural' diseases like cancer.

It would be great if everyone had such excellent support that an epidural wasn't necessary, but as that's not the case, it's unfortunate that a spokesperson for mws would make such a statement which is bound to make most women think 'midwives are evil, nice doctors give us drugs' and polarise the situation even more.

I eventually got an epidural with my first after asking for it for well over 12 hours. The relief was so welcome. DD was eventually born 12 hours later without intervention.

With DS I was induced and things weren't progressing and they wanted to send DH home I refused to let him go and made them move us into a private room so he could stay as I was having terrible contractions which weren't doing anything and all they would offer me was paracetamol which I am allergic to!! I took a bath and my waters went the midwife was loathe to examine me as she had only looked at me an hour ago and i had only been 2cm. DH forced the issue and suprise 8 cm dilated and wanting to push. No time for the epidural I wanted and barely time for gas and air as ds was nearly born in the lift on the way down to the delivery suite.

Must say that second time round was actually a more positive experience.

However I agree no one can judge the amount of pain another being is sufferening. We all have different pain thresholds and anyone wanting to take away the option of an epidural should be shot.

Next thing you know they will be telling us to take a leaf out of the scientology doctorate and be silent durring labour!!!!!!!

I think it is true to say that once you are hooked up to an epidural it is difficult to use other more 'natural' methods of pain relief. However, as others have said, its a bit of a stupid remark to make - what is a 'clinical indication' that an epidural is necessary - is there some kind of swearometer?

OOOO yes i am pretty fuming to hear that the MW are proposing to charge pregnant mums for epidural "DISGUSTING" so much for empathy and compassion. i work in healthcare (not obs and gynae)as a clinical specialist and we were taught that pain is what thee patient says it is and practitioners must be sensitive to pt needs. But i am not really suprised by midwives, my professional opinion of them plummeted when i was pregnant i found them aloof disinterested only able to offer limited helpful information and obsessed about the merits of natural birth.

Anyway i had an epidural and emergency c section and i think if a woman wants an epidural she should have one, it is a legitimate analgesisa and treatment.MW should get back to supporting and empowering women in the choices they want to make.

In addition i dont know how when you are in extreme pain you can make an informed choice about cost, is it informed choice?what do they do if you say yes and later cannot pay, of course it discriminates against those who cannot pay. its meant to be fee at point of access we pay taxes etc

Its outrageous!!

PMSL at the post natal sheep study. Still quite appropriate as some midwives do seem to be "sheep" in as much as they follow NHS dictats (herd) regardless of an individual patient's emotional needs.

It supports my belief that having information/statistics to read does not necessarily lead to an educated well-thought through "opinion". By spouting this "best for the patient overall" justification for restricting epidurals they are betraying their lack of empathy and overall intelligence.

Re: the post-natal sheep. Michel Odent refers to this in his book 'The Caesarean'. I believe it's also a phenomenon witnessed in primates. However, he draws a distinction in humans, in that (presumably as 'higher functioning' animals) maternal feeling will have had a chance to develop in the months of gestation. Presumably a sheep can't plan that far ahead.

Of course, the RCM has to highlight its annual conference in this way. If they didn't, their existence would pass unregarded.

Do you think all pregnant women could go on strike and refuse to see midwives, but instead demand treatment from GPs and consultants. Do we as patients have the right to strike?

I'm kidding of course (sort of)

I like the "swearometer", madameplatypus

If the RCM are just seeking publicity by stating that they value a lower c-section/intervention rate over assisting women in labour to access potential pain relief, the RCM'S existance should cease never mind pass unregarded.

that is rediculous! it would be like asking cancer patinets to pay for their on morphine!!!!

You are so vulnerable by the time you want an eppidural I probably would have sold my house and dh to get one!

My husband had to pay for his anti-sickness drugs during his chemo. (It was only the charge of 3items on a prescription, but none the less was very strange at the time). They are obviously looking for ways to claw back some money in the nhs. Try charging "Health Tourists"

Not sure if anyone has already said this or not but when most hospitals only have one (if that) birthing pool and other means of natural pain relief, then they shouldnt even be considering taking away epidurals. Not that they should if there were more pools anyway - YOU DO PAY for health care in this country - just not directly at each visit to a medical professional. You pay with NI and taxes.

I doubt if men went through childbirth this conversation would even be happening.

Oh, just thought of something. Don't all pregnant women get a form exempting them from paying for prescriptions whilst pregnant and until baby is 1 year old. So, perhaps, we should just give the form to the hospital?

It's a stupid idea and makes me very cross.

Shoot me now, but I do think epidurals, and intervention in general, are seriously overused. Many more women could give birth naturally given enough support. Howver I don't think going down the financial route is the correct way.