"Some Women Shouldn't BE Mothers"

[Levanna]

I've been bobbing around here on MN for the last few weeks or so, working up the courage to get this out of my system!
I had my daughter in hospital, it was a great birth, I was really enjoying it from within, (can't say I enjoyed the minor interventions imposed on us from outside !) but I found it really fullfilling, and under 5 hours later, my DDD came into the world.
About 5 hours after the birth, my daughter had trouble breathing, I pressed the emergency button, and a midwife came in, grabbed my baby from me, and ran away from me, with her, down the corridor, without a word. I belted along behind, at full waddle, and followed her into the nursery, where the suctioning equipment was situated. By the time we got there, my daughter was ok, so the midwife went back into the corridor towards the room. About halfway down, my daughter again had problems breathing, so the midwife (looking extremely panicky at this stage) charged back into the nursury, with me in hot pursuit. A second midwife was in the nursery, and she proceeded to suction my daughter. At this stage I froze. I was feeling really 'not with it' by then, scared, like I was in a surreal situation; it's hard to describe, but the fear for my baby was just overwhelming. The midwife completed suctioning, handed my daughter back to me, looked me straight in the eye, and said "Some women shouldn't BE mothers", I was too shocked to reply, and just left the room under her distainful stare.
This unfortunately had a hand in catapulting me into depression, major anxiety about my maternal capabilities abounded. After all, my ability had been not just questioned, but stamped and s**t on within hours of the birth.
It's taken me over a year and a half to tell anyone about this. I haven't even told my husband yet.
I have problems concieving due to PCOS, and I'm over the moon to be pregnant again now. What I really could do with help on, is how not to let this incident affect my next childs birth. Or me on the whole, any longer. I've already decided on a home birth and this incident has played a deciding part in that decision. I'm well again now, after being depressed, but I can feel thoughts about all this bringing me down again, and I'm scared that if, for some reason, someone did anything like this again, that I just wouldn't be able to cope. How can I drive away this anxiety?

God, what a horrible, dreadful thing to have said to you!I don't know what I can say to help, but I am sending a big hug. Others with better skills than me will post I know. Hugs

Hi Levanna. What a truly awful thing to say to you. Some women just shouldn't BE midwives should they? She should have been supporting and reassuring you, not undermining you, but you know that. I'm gobsmacked that anyone would say this but I doubt very much you'll get someone as awful as that again - IME most midwives are wonderful. If you're contemplating a home birth (and I think they're great, I had 2 home births), this is a good home birth thread . Sorry to hear about your depression too - I expect it was more than this comment that sparked it off though (although it was an awful thing to say) wasn't it? I think for most people it's a combination of hormones and circumstances. There's no guarantee that you'll be depressed next time though (although none that you won't either) but if you are you'll get plenty of support here. I was very very anxious during this last pregnancy and kept looking for a reason for it so I do understand. I didn't really find a way of driving away the anxiety oher than having the baby though but I'm sure someone else will be able to help.

Levanna, as hmb I haven't really much advise either but I just had to tell you how horrified I was at the comment from the MW. Also as WWW some women shouldn't be midwives, and NO-BODY should make comments like that to a very new mother.
I've had 2 homebirths too(snap WWW) and have found them both such amazing experiences that if I would ever be lucky enough to have another baby I wouldn't contemplate going to hospital to have him or her(DS1 was born in hosp and it was horrid labour and birth). I feel sooooooo proud of myself for doing it at home (1st one was unplanned, he was coming out whether I liked it or not,2nd one planned with military position) that I'm sure it has played a part in me not having any PND.
Enjoy your PG and homebirth, we're all here for you.

levanna, that's such an awful thing for the midwife to say and I am so sorry you are still huanted by it.

As you say you've never told anyone about this, I take it you never queried this with the hospital? now you've told someone - mumsnet - how would you feel about talking to the staff at the hospital in question? I don't mean making a formal complaint necessarily.

I know you want a home birth this time, but that's not what I'm getting at. Can you speak to someone on the maternity unit, tell them about the incident and also how you feel it helped catapault you into depression and how you are still anxious? If I were you, I think I might need an explanation and apology from the maturnity unit. A proper recognition of the worry it has caused you, to help you move on.

Even if the midwife is no longer there, or you don't know her name, or don't want to name names, just hearing other staff take your concerns seriously could help. And if you feel daunted about approaching the unit, could you tell your story to your husband or a friend and get them to come along with you to back up your story? Or get them to approach the unit on your behalf first so why you speak to staff there, they already have background knowledge.

I hope you get lots out of mumsnet, too.

Levanna - I am gobsmacked. Not only can I not believe that someone who is meant to b a professional said such a thing, but I just can't understand WHY she said it. Did she mean that it was somehow your fault that your baby had stopped breathing? If so what utter CRAP. I think you dealt with a scary situation completely correctly.
I do think you need to take this up with the hospital, if only so that you get complete reassurance from them that this woman was wrong to think that, let alone say it.

I'm so sorry Levanna.
With my first I suffered from pnd due to my treatment by nurses. The slightest wrong look and sly comment affected me for months afterwards.
Heres how you get over it
tell everyone, over and over again until you are sick of hearing it,
then go to your gp and ask them if there is a way to make a formal complaint about the midwife. I know by experience that there is a way, but I can't remember how its done exactly.
She has in one awful and bizarre comment ruined your experiences of your newborn.
She has to be made accountable for this.

Levanna, I swore out loud reading this ? will tone it down for message but 'what an evil c*w of a midwife' doesn't even begin to cover it! Am outraged on your behalf. And bewildered ? what the hell did the stupid woman mean? Her comment is ridiculous. IMO she shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a new mum ever again. As others have said, it might help to take action. If you do decide to make a complaint, the hospital wil have a Patient Advocacy and Liaison Service (known as PALS) who can guide you. Or you could contact your local Patients' Forum (details in the phone book). Did you get any help with your depression? Could you talk to someone who was around then about it? And could you mention it to the community midwife at your antenatal check ? they might be able to reassure you that this was way out of line. As others have said, MN will be here for you and will support you all the way, whatever you decide about complaining and about where to give birth.

I share everyone's outrage at this and I hope your next experience of childbirth allows you to feel better. Making a complaint may help you feel stronger for having done something about this dreadful incident. It might also help to talk things over with a counsellor, perhaps someone who has a lot of experience in counselling parents (eg a family therapist).

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add to what has already been said, except for to add my outrage and sympathy. What a dreadful and frankly baffling thing to say.

Levanna,

So sorry to hear about your horrible experience with the Midwife. I think if a midwife said that to anyone just after they'd given birth it would be likely to cause depression.

As someone said, I think it would be a good idea to tell your GP about it. Did you have any form of treatment for post-natal depression? The GP might be able, if you think it could help, to refer you for counselling to help you deal with the issues and feelings that becoming pregnant again has unlocked.

You mentioned planning a home-birth for this baby, that sounds like a wonderful idea.
How about using a Doula to support you emotionally throughout the birth? It might make you feel more confident knowing you've got someone with you throughout who will understand your feelings about the Midwives, and would never let anything be said to you that might upset you.

I think you've already taken a big step towards feeling better by telling us on MN.

Elena xxx

Levanna I can't believe that this woman said this to you. I think you should report her, if for no other reason than to prevent her doing the same thing to someone else. Is it possible you could have misheard her as it sounds like a v odd sort of thing to say.

I think the fact that you are now talking about this on mumsnet is a good start to not letting this affect your next birth (congratulations by the way!).

Levanna I can't believe that this woman said this to you. I think you should report her, if for no other reason than to prevent her doing the same thing to someone else. Is it possible you could have misheard her as it sounds like a v odd sort of thing to say.

I think the fact that you are now talking about this on mumsnet is a good start to not letting this affect your next birth (congratulations by the way!).

I've read it 3x now and I still can't figure out what the midwife was trying to say Levanna did wrong... um, nope, really have no idea. I think the MW was just having a bad day... maybe she was talking about herself!?

Levanna

this may be of some help, although your trauma was after you gave birth, it was still connected to the experience.

this

I called have used the service and they helped me to put things in to perspective.

I have nothing to add to this except my support. Sadly, I can believe it - my experience of hospital with dd1 was what made me have dd2 at home. I'm so so sorry.

Maybe this really nasty woman was thinking more of her own panic and her own situation. Blaming you for scaring her? No justification - just, like others, reading and re-reading this and wondering how on earth a health professional could ever say something like this to a new mother.
Levanna, you should, if you can, go back to the hospital (not physically if that's too stressful), and make a complaint about this to the Head of Midwifery or Women's Services. There should be a record of the incident in your dd's notes which may enable you to get a name if you don't recall it.
I had reason to complain about my treatment at a hospital but did not do so at the time, and it took counselling to get it out of my system later. Talking it through with someone, whether a manager at the hospital, or a counsellor, might help you gain some kind of closure on this horrible experience. You do not deserve to have your second pregnancy and birth spoilt by dreading something like this happening again - although I think and hope that would be pretty rare, most midwives are not like this. I wonder if the NCT might be able to help you find an appropriate listener or avenues to explore.
I hope talking about it here has helped you - Mumsnet can be very therapeutic as well as good fun and good company. Welcome!

I echo everyone else's sentiments and feel you HAVE to write to the hospital concerned.
3 years ago I was pregnant, went for a routine scan and the baby had died. It is known as a missed abortion (I think some places now call it a missed miscarriage probably to help prevent what happened to me). I was admitted to a general ward, not gynae, to have surgery to have it removed and was treated appallingly. I couldn't understand why the nurses were being very short with me etc until I overheard one say to another "You take the woman who's had the abortion, I don't want to". Now its not for anyone to judge me even if I'd had an abortion, but I hadn't. A few hours before I'd been happily pregnant.
I was discharged soon after, but this bothered me so much. The staff had no idea what a missed abortion was. So I wrote to the unit manager. My main reason was I wanted no-one to go through what I did.(This is also one of the reasons that I have such a large gap between my 2)
As an ex-nurse, I can tell you letters of complaint as well as praise do get taken seriously. Even after all this time I would write a letter to them. I would also discuss all you've told us with your midwife to ensure you get the birth and important postnatal care you deserve.
Very best wishes to you

Levanna
I echo Marina about the counselling. The link I posted is for the birth Crisis Network founded by Sheila Kitiznger. I found them entirely sympathetic and very empowering and it was done over the phone.

Naturally I don't wish to put any pressure on you but it coyld be a good st`rting point.

Posey, that is very reassuring to know hospitals take letters of complaint seriosly.

Hi, thank you all so much for your support and suggestions. I've found that even just writing down the experience here has been really cathartic.
I did have psychotherapy last year, but never talked there about this. It was too soon after, and I was still contemplating whether the midwife was right in some way. I'll have a look at the links posted (thanks) and will probably contact someone to talk about it all further.
Someone suggested that I hadn't heard the midwife correctly, which is of course a possibility, I explained the state I was in! But, the evening following the incident, the same midwife came into my room, and apologised in a round about way; she explained how tired she was, and the pressures on her, etc, etc (read blah, blah!) I would usually give time to anyone who came to me with a problem, but I really felt this lady was in a way looking for support from me about her behaviour! (A role reversal of sorts, as somebody mentioned, you would hope to have support from the midwifes, not vice versa.) Anyway, I was in non stop tear mode at this stage, I agreed that stress and long hours are hard on people, and left it at that. I was just too unsure of myself to pull her up on what she'd said, and in no state to form any worthwhile responses anyway. Someone suggested that I could possibly find her name from my daughters medical file, which is really helpful, as I haven't a clue what it is! Since writing here what happened, I've been able to tell other people close to me about it, thank you for that.
I think I'm going to approach the hospital about it. This in itself may not alone have caused the depression, (my major fear about motherhood was being as incompetent at it as my mother was!) it certainly was the start of it.
Thanks again.
Levanna

Wow Levanna. What an unbelievably stupid thing to say! What a witch. If I were in your position I would definately make a formal complaint in writing to the hospital, it will make you feel more in control. The woman should be hauled over hot coals for whst she has done to you. I hope this is a turning point for you so you can enjoy the rest of your pregnancy.

Levanna, it is dreadful what this woman has done, I had a similar experience though not comming from the midwives but my mother.

My labour was very long and a bit traumatic but the midwives were great (at least those of the pre-delivery ward).The first days at home went like a breeze, I was expecting a caos but I found those first weeks very easy, I was relaxed, the baby was relaxed and all seemed under control so I felt I was doing a good work as a mother and I was a bit (very) proud of myself, then DM arrived... she crticised EVERYTHING from the way we bathed DS to the way we changed his nappies, I even heard her telling DS that we were going to kill him with such a bad care AND telling MIL that I was very stupid trying to go through labour for such a long time (as if I had a word on the length of the process or I could have ordered a cesarean), and that somebody should have decided for me as I didn't know what I was doing and could have damaged the baby. Even the pride I felt in being OK with such a dreadful childbirth was taken away. When she left a week later I was feeling the worst mother in the world.

Ds had been misteriously choking since he was born but every doctor, mw and hv told us it was normal (as usual), until he started chocking in front of a dr who finally send him for a check at the hospital were they dicovered DS had born with a condition that made him choke with his own larynx. When I rang my mother to tell her we where in hospital she didn't ask what had happened, she just spurted "you don't take care of him".

I was so mad with her that not only my confidence came back, but now I retaliate with all that I know when she dares to criticise, however, I have noticed that this reaction sometimes has gone beyond my mother, and don't know if this is a good or bad thing, however... I don't regret it, I was bit tired of playing the role of a doormat....

Well after such a novel of my life I just want to say that I understand how you feel and tell you that taking actions into it has helped me feel much better about myself so, if you are worried about the scene being repated talk to your current midwife, I'm sure she will take care to hear your concerns and pass them to the delivery ward staff, I don't know if they could discipline the midwife, specially after such a long time, but at least they will make sure that such sort of thing will not happen again. *hugs

hi levanna
so sorry tohear about the appalling way you were treated in hospital. Soemthing very similar happened to me on the ward when ds started choking on what I think was just his own mucus but the nurse in charge said was my breastmilk and it was my fault for not burping him properly/putting him down wrong. I remember the trauma of seeing him being recusitated and blaming myself but of course, it wasn't anyone's fault. I'm just boring you with my life story cos I hope it will help to know that I can totally and utterly identify with how you felt that day. It also knocked my confidence a lot for the first few months but I was lucky not to develop depression.
I also remember another nicer nurse on the ward telling me that I must tell my husband about it the next day and I did - I don't think he ever really realised how awful it had been for me but it did help me to be able to share it with him - in a way it just made it seem a less serious incident because he didn't actually realise how terrible it had been. I hope that sharing your story with us and now starting to talk to other people about it is also helping you. Remember, mumsnetters are always here (there always seems to be someone on line!) to help out too.
love

Levanna
Blimey - that's outrageous. I'm so sad that one nasty woman and her unjustified, stupid remark has had such an effect on you. You did nothing wrong and everything right in the events leading up to her stupid remark. i'm disgusted that she said such a thing and dissappointd that she seems to have got away with it.
I don't know how you get over her pathetic comment, perhaps hearing how angry it's made all the other mumsnetters will help. Perhaps hearing us all tell you that she was wrong and totally out of order and unjustified and that you didn't do anything wrong, at all, will help? Perhaps trying to make a complaint about her now would help?
Sometimes people in the medical profeession are great at their actual job but have absolutley no people skills. Your situaltion was way beyond just good people skills but reading other comments and in my own experience some of these people shouldn't be allowed near the general public.

Levanna, I am very shocked. that was unprofessional of her in her role as MW, and evil, in her role as human being. You didn't do anything wrong at all. You found your baby having difficulties, and took the fastest way of getting help. Even if you HAD done something misguided or made a mistake of some kind she had no right to speak to you lke that.
God, you feel so alone and lonely in those post-natal wards, don't you? Did it happen at night?

I would echo what others have said about telling the hospital, and I am very pleased that you are doing so.

Congratulations o your pg, please enjoy your pregnancy as you deserve to do so, and get on with being a fantastic mum.

god levanna that is so awful, at the time when you were at your most vunerable to have had someone say that to you must have been soul destroying. I agree that if you can possibly bear it you should write to the hospital, how DARE she say something like that.
What about cognitive behavourial therapy to help you get over the specific anxiety that you have been left with. poor you.