Question about VEs

[confuddledDOTcom]

I had some problems during my last birth (the birth itself was brilliant, the problems were the staff) and, to cut out all the details, my Doula got to the point where she whipped out her phone until they stopped her. One of the pictures puzzles me and I keep coming back to it, so I thought I'd ask on MN.

Are VEs always done with one hand?

I've had 2 so far in this pregnancy and yes it was one-handed.

yes, VEs are done with one hand. Almost always 2 fingers, unless there is an emergency (particularly a haemorrhage) in which case the whole hand may be used. This is very rare and very painful without adequate pain relief. HTH.

and I meant to say I'm sorry there were problems with your birth. I hope you're working through it ok.

I always presumed they were...why would you need to use two hands?

The picture is what we think the doctor deliberately breaking my waters. I was climbing up the bed trying to get away from this "VE", it felt like she had long nails and was using them ungloved on me. I've never had a two-handed VE before and not seen it at the births I've supported, but I've not done that many so still feel a little "what do I know?"

VEs are one handed but ARM (breaking waters) will involve 2 hands, not sure how to word this to explain, Dr or Midwife will VE (usually with right hand)to assess and locate the membranes, then with right hand remaining in that position will use left hand to insert and guide amniohook and when amniohook in position next to membranes will use fingers of right hand to guide amniohook to rupture membranes - although some staff do this with their kedt hand that is holding outside end of amniohook.

Not sure if that makes sense - in that case it might appear to be two handed although only one hand is actually Ve ing.

I have never known a midwife or Dr VE without gloves

You are making sense

It was done with gloves, I just felt like I had bare nails on my insides.

I don't believe there was a hook, in fact she was angry that it had broken all over her and she was wet inside her shoes () and my partner and Doula didn't say there had been one. She said she was doing a VE. The picture has her with fingers of both hands inside me on opposite sides, sort of following the line of my legs, if that makes sense?

I was 34 weeks (always gone early) having a VBA2C with an inverse T which apparantly is full length of my uterus. My own consultant was fine about it as was every doctor I met in pregnancy, but on the day they were determined I wasn't going to deliver naturally. At first they came in with the intention of getting me into theatre before they'd even paid me any attention, when they realised it was too late they decided to pull her out instead. This VE was done at about 9pm, I was 6cm and my waters went. About 10 minutes later I started pushing, took 12 minutes to push her out and 6 minutes later the placenta came, she was born with an APGAR of 9 and they didn't have time to get the forceps anywhere near me! They'd forced me into stirrups despite me, Doula and MW shouting "no" because I have long term PGP, Doula and I tried to physically stop them but I was held down and my partner told to hold me still - despite them denying they'd ever ask dad/ anyone to hold mum still this is something else you can see on the photos, his arm wrapped tightly around my leg and this is all whilst I'm only 6cm. And this is still only a small amount of what happened!

Wow OP, hope you're alright I know circumstances sometimes necessitate it but they sound like they were a bit heavy handed with you :(

Where was this? Have you requested a debrief or anything?

My Doula came with me to see the SoM I negotiated the VBAC with. The hospital deny most of what happened, they swear baby was in distress (APGAR of 9 at 34 weeks, remember!) and did everything they could blah blah. I'm pregnant again so going to go over it with my Doula again, I want to understand things better and what she would have done differently (the one on the day was a stand-in and less experienced). It was actually a really good birth, it happened quickly, very little pain relief needed, I got to feel her as she was born... it was just these idiots who were determined to get involved, fortunately I've been able to segregate those events in my mind. The worst bit has been the effects on my PGP. For weeks later when I went to the toilet I felt like I was an egg being cracked.

I'm planning on seeing the SoM again and coming up with a plan to make sure thigns like this don't happen again. Unfortunately it's a high risk hospital and I'm a high risk mum so I need to be there.

I would agree with an t scar on your uterus you should be in a consultant unit, but you could choose a different one. Are there any other ones near you?

Have you formally complained? If you want to, try AIMS.

Even in the greatest emergency ever, women can still be treated with respect. It's amazing that you can separate the good and bad, I'm very impressed by that. I hope things go really well for you this time.

I'm not high risk because of the scar, I am autoimmune and that's where the immunology specialists are, if I couldn't be at this hospital I'd rather move to London and see the man who discovered the disease than see anyone else. It's also the best NNU in the area and as I always go early my babies will always end up there.

We complained through the SoM and she took it as far as she could, of course they all closed ranks so her hands were tied really, and we're now going through Pohwer.

I supported a lady earlier this year in a different hospital. She was back to back and had an infection in her uterus so she was in constant pain that masked the contractions. They were amazing with her, I really saw the difference. After awhile it was clear baby was going back up each time and she needed help. They got the forceps in and she screamed at them to take it out. So he stopped and gently said "I can't do it if you say no, so you need to tell me when I can start again, I know it hurts but it'll be quick and we need to help your baby" he was true to his word. I was so angry when I left, it hit home what they'd done. I was in no way in as bad a situation as she was and there was not any consent or kindness in it.

I think I was just glad I got what I wanted in the end, I made sure as much as I could that I kept some control or stubbornness. They told me to put a gown on because my nursing nightie had studs, took a couple of seconds before I threw it on the floor and laboured naked. When they were trying to get me to push on the placenta I stuck my tongue out and coughed, her face was brilliant In the end I got what I wanted, apart from the stirrups they didn't get their way at all.

Oh just thought, they weren't supposed to be augmenting my labour in anyway, I was told it had to be totally me because if they had to do anything it would be a section, so if she did ARM it was sly. My Doula thinks it was bit of a "pit to distress" type situation, they put me on the clock and didn't bank on my body responding favourably to it.