The Observer's health editor says women ought to have C-sections instead of vaginal delivery.

[dizietsma]

\link{http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/news/0,,1723873,00.html\link to article}

I'm appalled. I haven't read it all the way through yet, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be writing to the Observer to complain about this shocking and irresponsible opinion piece.

Thanks Uwila, don't mean to scare anyone at all because I know how nerve wracking it can be anyway! Main thing is, we're all OK now, but it can be a bit of a 'mare.

rachp, it sounds awful, poor you.

rachp - horrible story - sympathies.

I have heard other similar stories and was absolutley petrified of going into a hospital to give birth. Best decision of my life to go for a natural birth in a birth centre.

A C-section is MAJOR abdominal surgery and I honestly think it is irresponsible of any one, including journalists many of who do not seem to be of the human race, to suggest that they are the best and safest way to give birth.

When will women stop getting on their high horse about this issue? Why can't people just accept that for some its natural with no pain relief, for others its natural with an epidural and for others its a c-section?

I had two elective sections and am personally fed up of women going on and on about my failure to give birth naturally!

If you want no pain relief then you can have this but (god forbid) if you want a section then frankly you might as well just put the kids in care you are such a lousy mother!

Totally agree, Lucy !

I think we should support women whatever type of birth they choose.

Birth is such a miracle, it doesn't matter how it is achieved.

So, here's to women (ok ok with a little input from men) and their ability to bring life into this world ! Cheers !!!

lucy, the point of this thread was not to berate personal choice but to say what a load of balloney to the author of the article stating that elective section was the best option for everyone.

lucy01, I think a lot of us have explained exactly why we can't accept it further down the thread.

Agree with you Lucy01. I've been arguing this all along: choice for women, including natural birth and elective sections. But I have failed to persuade the like of WWW, who still feels that woman should be required to try vaginal birth and only be offered a caesarean whe it is "medically necessary". I'm not quite sure how "medically necessary" should be difined. I do know that BUPA and I have different definitons.

I am amazed at the ridiculous responses to this article and the way the nhs is portrayed by you as 'out to get women'. I had a very difficult birth for my first child but he was delivered naturally, with a ventouse. I then needed a lot of care to recover. The staff at the hospital were excellent and one midwife satyed 5 hours beyond her shift to continue to care for me. If you cannot read this article as it is intended as promoting another idea and for allowing people choice then you have a problem! Many people feel the 'natural birth' and 'breast feeding' message rammed down your throat from the moment you are pregnant just as offensive as you seem to find this article. It is a shame women can't be treated with enough intelligence to be given 'all' the facts and then allowd to make their own choice.

Oh bravo, Ele ! Hear, Hear !

It is afterall CHOICE, a womans right to chose what she wants to experience for the birth of her baby, but some don't get that choice in the first instance as with em LSCS, which to my knowledge is never performed unless there is a great risk to the health of mother/baby/both. With a LSCS emergency or planned there are risks assosiated with having major abdominal surgery which are explained to the mother prior to it happening both with the surgery itself and any anaesthetics involved. This she must understand and accept and is referred to as informed consent, similar risks as having any type of surgery. But vaginal births do not come without risks too, nothing in this life is risk free, the whole process our bodies go through from conception to birth is a huge risk and puts alot of strain on our bodies. traditionally caesarian births were a do or die senario and often resulted in death due to the ways medicine was practiced, now with the medical advances we have in this day and age mortality rates are low for both vaginal and LSCS births. I had my first child via em LSCS due to worsening pre-eclampsia during labour and because baby was stuck in my pelvis, something called a deep transverse arrest, which an assisted delivery failed to result in her birth but exaccerbated the situation, thus i felt out of control, confused and frightened both for myself and my baby, the decision was not mine to do the LSCS but it was explained to me in detail when i saw the consultant the next day. I had the choice with my second pregnany Planned LSCS or vaginal birth, but the whole experience first time around petrified me that much i opted for a planned LSCS, which this time was controlled, peaceful and serene way to welcome my baby into the world, I had no worries.... working at the hospital as a RGN i chose my consultant and knew what risks were involved, what i wasn't prepared for was the choking episode my son had later that day because the mucous in the lungs is not expelled like it is during a vaginal birth... but staff were really good and showed me how to massage his chest to help him cough it up.... now pregnant with my third child and again booked for another planned LSCS at the hospital of my choice and under the care of the obstetrician of my choice i am looking forward to the pending op day. I don't feel robbed of the chance to birth naturally in any way what so ever.
What angers me is the pro vaginal birth people who think i am less of a mum by having LSCS's or think i am too posh to push which is not the case at all..... to me an episiotomy or the thought of tearing is far more frightening than an LSCS, what is important is that you and your baby get through the whole experience in a way that you are comfortable and happy with and if that means any plans for a vaginal birth are dashed by the medics advising you need a LSCS, then so be it..... litigation and people sueing is a big fear in any field of medical/surgical practice from the domestic help on the ward to the constultant but you never really hear of anyone sueing because they had an em LSCS which resulted in the safe delivery of their baby but went against their plans for a natural delivery....
Every delivery is unique and should not be judged under a cliched umbrella, we caesarian mums are just as competant and just as loving as the vaginal birth mums, we just made a different choice for delivery.. thats all, we still breast feed, we still chose real nappies over disposables. we just take a few more weeks to get over the whole birth experience.
CHOICE is personal.. DO NOT offend people by rubbishing their decisions, that to me is plain ignorance!!!!!

choice schmoice

is this STILL GOIN G ON

No.

I fully agree with this article. When I was pregnant with my first child I told my doctors that there was a history of difficult childbirth in my family and he ignored me. The result, two days' labour resulting with a baby in distress and emergency c-section. When I got pregnant again from the very first time I saw a doctor I told them I wanted a c-section. They eventually agreed when I was 32 weeks pregnant (putting me through months of stress) and my daughter was born, by elective surgery two weeks later. Women who say they were "robbed" if they don't give birth naturally are just too emotional, surely it is better to be thankful that you HAVE a healthy child rather than worry about which hole it came out of!!!

Hmmm it will probably continue while ever new mums join mumsnet! and read the threads.. you can't silence people of their freedom to express themselves. i think the LSCS V vaginal arguement will go on til the end of time or until we have babies via a different means!

Yes but Odie,a close personal friend of mine had a similar family history. She laboured naturally and now has a beautiful baby.

For every story 'for' electives, there will always be a counter story.

This is exactly like the bf vs bottle threads.

However, it is the SCIENTIFIC evidence which I am interested in not personal choice.

No one said you should not have a c-section if you cannot or do not wish to have a natural birth.

What I object to is a journalist, i.e. someone with NO medical credentials whatsoever arguing that c-sections are good and safe and how we should all be doing it.

Where is her scientific proof ?

agree kk.

i choose to do something that puts myself and my unborn baby unnecessarily at risk and you must defend me or else you are ignorant and awful people.

hmmmmmmmmm

Typically this discussion has careered out of control and off the point.
It is not about whether or not any individual woman should or should not have a c section. Or which is "better" for you as an individual.
It is a thread discussing an article that purports c sections to be safer on the whole for all women than natural vaginal deliveries.
Which is of course tosh

It's not the availability of CSections that people are objecting to - it's lines like

"We are fast approaching the point where logically we should encourage women to have a caesarean whether or not they have a medical or psychological reason for wanting one."

i.e. people should be encouraged to have a CS as a DEFAULT. For NO reason at all.

but Piffle the article states that'elective CS' are safer than vaginal deliveries - and if you include deliveries that begin vaginally and end in emergency CS as vaginal (which you should really), then the electives may be safer - proper studies need to be done.

Nor does it take into account the after affects and recovery and complications of cs into account.
To recommend women have them without trying to labour (with obvious exceptions) is simply promoting the culture of childbirth fear.
IF c sections were safer, would the human not be bloody well extinct by now?

exactly, snailspace. I believe Rochwen in a post further down had the risks of an elective explained to her this way - when she asked about it in relation to hers. To truly understand the risks of vaginal deliveries, you cannot exclude from the statistics the proportion of vaginal deliveries that end up as crash sections. My personal bugbear is not being advised of the high risks of a crash section when I was pressured to undergo an induction as a first time mum. I ended up with one under GA when baby went into distress. I did not make an informed choice when I chose trial of labour.