If you had a traumatic birth was it worth doing a birth debrief?

[HannahBerry]

What exactly happens? How do you get one? What is discussed? Was it with the midwife that delivered you? Did it help?

Six weeks on after a traumatic and very long labour/ birth and I think I need to talk it through with someone but I wonder if it'll actually help me feel less upset or more wound up ...

Hiya. I had a v traumatic birth that resulted in EMSC with a general anaesthetic. My pct run a birth afterthoughts service. I had a debrief about 6 weeks later. It wasn't with the mw who delivered (but I did go through about 8) and they literally went through everything. All my anti natal, delivery and post natal notes. As I was on a monitor with my delivery notes she was able to explain everything in relation to the timeline of the trace. She literally went through EVERY little detail and justified why they did or didn't do stuff as well as answer all my questions. It was very worthwhile for both me and dh as the order of events was very jumbled and I remembered very little. It was good to get some closure and get on with my life

I did and it helped enormously. I went to my booking appt for dd when ds was just over 1 year old, I was still having flashbacks and nightmares about his birth. She said how are you feeling and I burst into tears saying I was absolutely terrified of giving birth again and that I couldn't go through that a second time. I was insisting that I have a section. We had a good long chat about it, she suggested a book for me to read and never looked back. I do sometimes reflect on the horror that was ds birth, but now in a very detached way. Dd was born after a long and painful labour, but because the midwife had helped me to identify what had scared me most about ds birth I was able to avoid those issues second time around. She also gave me the confidence that if at any point I decided that I couldnt cope, that I would be able to have a section and that would be fine. Knowing that I had a get out clause was a huge help, as was the book I read (spiritual midwifery) that helped me see birth as a normal process, and explained what my body was going through and why. This gave me confidence that all was fine even with the pain, and gave me a feeling of control which was what I needed. I'm now pregnant again and actually looking forward to giving birth!

rogersmelly Do you mean you had a debrief quite soon after your first birth, or you had it once pregnant with the second? I had a rough time with DS (1st child) and onleaving the hopsital after his birth was offered a debrief. At the time it was all I could do to organise my self to leave the hospital (or in fact walk to the end of the ward let a lone the car!) so I just said I would think about it. By a couple of weeks later I thought I was much better so never bothered. However, started having flash backs again when startted TTC for the second, and now pregnant! I was wondering if I'd still be able to get a debrief even though DS is nearly two, and I don't live anywhere near where I had him. The flash backs have stoped again now but I don't like the idea that I might completly freek out when I go into labour again. Early days so haven't seen a midwife yet but will talk to the midwife when I go for booking appointment in a couple of weeks.

Oh and hannah I really regreat not having it now so go for it! I doubt it will make you feel worse even if it's hard to go through at the time, and if it helps then great. I really wish I'd had one.

It took me a year to organise one after DS's EMCS. It was a different midwife and not held in the maternity unit, it was at a local GP surgery.

Yes, it helped me. She did pretty much confirm how it all unfolded, told me to never attempt natural birth (I'd already decided that myself!) and she had a rant about the bad post-natal care. It was a weight off my shoulders.

I was unlucky as mine was not helpful, which I think is unusual. I found it very upsetting as was with a consultant who had nothing to do with it and kept asking 'is this what you want to know? What is it exactly you want to know?' and I couldn't really speak so that I didn't sob. Think is unusual not to feel better after it. I was unlucky in getting an unsympathetic person.
It's definitely worth a try. I'm so sorry you're feeling traumatised, is a deeply horrible, frightening feeling. If it's any comfort, time does change it. In my case it has taken all the trauma away. It took about 8 months then one day I realised it had gone. Best of luck OP.

I had a debrief and also saw a birth trauma counsellor. I found both very helpful. The debrief clarified the medical facts, the counselling helped me process the fear.

I'm having a de-brief in a couple of weeks. I'm mostly having it because although I personally don't think the birth was that traumatic, people I've told seem to think it was, also I can't remember the 48 hours following the birth, and I'm having some PND issues, which I hope will be resolved through the de-briefing.

I wish I'd have asked for it sooner, (baby is 12 weeks old now) - in fact I think women should be offered it along with their 6 week check-up, as I don't think all women know it's available.

I meant to organise one & somehow never got round to it, I wish I had as am 7 months pregnant & starting to worry about the birth.

I did, and would again. A midwife went through my notes with me then answered all my questions. I'd never met her before but she was fabulous, and it helped me settle a few things in my own mind.

HelsBels, I don't think it's too late to go now, they'll still have your notes.

I thought it was only available for a year after the birth? Son is now 29 months old.

I was told they keep notes for 18 years incase you sue later down the line - my nephew is 11 and my sil has been offered it recently with regards to his birth as it was so traumatic.

I'm considering debrief for myself after ds birth 16wks ago, but I'm worried they will think I'm making a fuss about nothing. I'm terrified about thought of ever having another baby though, I really don't think I could go through that again :s

I couldn't because they "accidentally" lost my notes so there could be no follow up. They also discharged me after six hours because "there weren't any postnatal beds". dd was delivered by my mum despite me having a bunch of high risk factors (diabetes, placental haemorrhage) because "no one labours that quickly the first time and anyway, you're not in enough pain".

I would have liked a debrief and, frankly, given the staff the opportunity for some retraining. I had pnd but after a while I realised that dwelling on the past doesn't help or change it and I had to put it behind me.

I'm pg again now and planning a home birth despite my risk factors because I'm only 5 mins by ambulance if I need to go in but I think I'll be better cared for at home. I'm focussing on the positives (I did it before, quickly and with minimal pain relief) and trying to ignore the other stuff. It's a bit like getting behind the wheel after a car accident, it's best not to link the past with the future.

So how would you ask for one? GP? And does GP hold the birth notes in your ordinary file? Would be happy to do this if GP could do it with me, don't fancy having to go to hospital and be judged

Your notes will be in the hospital/ unit where you gave birth, or where your community midwife worked out of. Around here you just call the midwifery unit and ask to book a debrief.

Thanks, Springforward.

Unfortunately for me it wasn't helpful, being left with the impression that it was my fault. The only useful bit was discovering that the doctor who had been so rude to me had "moved on".

My debrief was about 13 months after the birth, no one mentioned a debrief at any time, I had horrific pnd after ds, couldn't cope at all. I had flashback and nightmares (usually triggered by period pains which felt to me exactly like labour!) I wish I had had a proper debrief sooner, it helped me enormously, even though on reflection, most of the horror was caused by me feeling out of control, it still helped me to analyse what had happened, look at my own feelings, and to give myself tools for being in control in dds labour.

Another possibility is to get a copy of your notes and go through them with someone else, possibly more senior. Although, of course, this may entail both expense (getting the notes) and getting referred to someone else.

In my case (traumatic birth and serious birth injuries), I got to the bottom of what happened to me, why and how things should have been done differently by discussing my notes with the (extremely knowledgeable, very senior and highly specialised) consultant gynae who's putting me back together now.

Based on his assessment of what happened and what they did, I wrote a letter of formal complaint and have been fobbed off with the take-home message of 'oh dear, but shit happens, nothing to do with us'. Had been given the same 'oh dear, nothing could have been done differently' message from my GP.

If I'd gone for a birth debrief at the unit where I delivered, this is the message I would have got. But it's not the truth. Knowing the truth is hard for me. Knowing that it was all so avoidable and if I had been assessed by the right person antenatally I would have been for ELCS, or that if I'd been treated properly immediately after giving birth I could have avoided some of the problems I was left with, is very hard and makes me angry and bitter. It has also left me with huge 'what if' angst about if only I had gone somewhere else, if only I had done more of my own research antenatally, things might have turned out differently. That's very hard. Maybe it would have been easier to live with the lie that no one could have known and nothing else could have been done? On balance, I prefer the truth, but it's not easy.

Sorry for the ramble! I guess the points I'm trying to make is that a birth debrief from the place you delivered might not provide you with a complete and accurate picture of what happened, why and whether other options could have been pursued. Secondly, if you find out that things could have gone differently, it can be a hard and distressing truth to live with, so make sure you have good support.

So sorry you have had a traumatic time. It's dreadful and I really feel for you.

XX

I was offered a debrief of DD1's birth when pg with DD2, the intention of the MW who referred me for it was to put me off my HB plans so the MW was very, very negative about my birth. I had a 4 day induction because my then cons. 'induces all my epileptic ladies at 38 weeks' . DD1 wasn't ready and I ended up with a small PPH, ventouse delivery and 8 hours of syntocinon with a not really working epidural (oh and being medically assaulted by a MW).

The MW doing the debrief told me that DD2 was likely to be huge as DD1 was very large, when I put forward that 7lb 12oz IS NOT large by any stretch of the imagination, I got told well she was a lot bigger than average (erm 4oz and most of that was water weight from the IV fluids!!) and 2nd babies are ALWAYS bigger. DD2 was 7lb 6oz and so tiny she wore dollies or prem sized clothes for about a month!

I also got told that HB was dangerous as you need Drs on hand to sort problems, I put forward that if your cat goes into labour you leave it alone in the dark to help the labour go smoothly (and to help oxytocin release!), the MW argued that a 'responsible' cat owner would watch the cat all the time so they could take the cat to the vet for a c-section at the first sign of trouble. I did wonder why this sort of action wasn't possible with a HB after all I would have an ambulance to get to hospital and two MWs for medical knowledge and a doula for support as well as DH - were they telling me I would be better off going to the vets??

Anyway I went ahead with DD2's HB and it went smoothly except for 'having' to transfer in post birth as the MW estimated my blood loss based on bath water (she insisted I have a bath following the birth and then panicked as I didn't stop bleeding in the bath [I don't even on my period]) and the Mat. Ward said I had to come in even though with in a few hours of DD2's birth my womb had contracted down to pre-pg size and I had stopped bleeding (DD2 bf for over an hour after I got out of the bath).

I ended up signing out AMA as the Drs/MW ignored me once they had got the drip in my arm (after being threatened with being taken down to surgery and having a femoral line inserted as I have rubbish veins and a 'needle/cannula in hand' phobia) - they told DH if he took me home I would bleed to death in bed next to him and he wouldn't notice me dying (I hadn't been bleeding for hours by this point but they didn't know that as they hadn't examined me or talked/listened to me in the 7 hours I was in the post-natal room). He replied 'But you would notice when Truth's in the private room you've promised her all alone with the baby all night?? I think I'd notice when she's in bed next to me'

The birth debrief wasn't useful to me really (well being left alone with my notes would have been more helpful) but this has been!

I had a debrief when DS was 26 months. We were thinking about having another, but I knew I'd have to deal with what happened the first time round first.
Now 30 weeks with second baby, and I'm definitely in a better place for having talked about what went wrong the first time round.
It helped me decide that this time round a ELCS was the right choice, and that it's the sensible thing to do for me.

I had a debrief about 3 months after I had dd. HV recommended it as I was having flash backs, mostly triggered by a couple if family members having really nice birth experiences, compared to mine.

A few good.things came out of it

• it confirmed that i did indeed have a bad experience, i had started to think i was over reacting.
• the after birth support service keep my details on record, and if i lose my mind and have another, i can contact them and they will.support me / act as my advocate through any subsequent.pregnancy.
• they recommended changes to induction procedure so their is staff continuity where possible; I had been looked after by 15 different midwives and so no one saw my psychological.decline over my 5 day induction, if i'd had fewer.members of.staff, they would.have understood the difference in me from.when I started to when I finally had a emcs.

I still have occasional nightmares, but I think.it really helped to reassure me that i hadn't built it up in my head to be something worse than it was.

Random additional note - if you think you'll need one before the next baby, get in as soon as possible.

I asked for one a few weeks ago as am now 27 weeks with second baby and first time went a bit pear-shaped. They've said they'll try and fit me in before DD2 is born! It hadn't occurred to me it would take quite that long and I wanted to have it before deciding where to give birth, but I fear I may have missed the boat.

Definitely have one. I waited til 13 months before asking, was seen at 15 months and it was like a weight lifting. I didn't truly realise how much it was hanging over me.

I'm afraid i'm a pushy middle class mum so i'd looked up who the head midwife was online and emailed her personally apologising for bothering her but asking who we should contact to arrange one. She saw us personally.

It's quite emotional. But also strange what comforts you. I had a crash c-section with GA and unfortunately we both knew what it meant when they pressed the button so it was terrifying. Learning what happened to our son in the 9 mins between being knocked out and him being handed to my husband was such a comfort.

Go for it