This hynobirthing malarkey, do you have to buy into it wholeheartedly to get any benefit out of it?

[thunksheadontable]

Started Hypnobirthing last week with two amazing practitioners, both community midwives who do homebirths in my area, and thought it was excellent. Due the other 3 couples who were booked on pulling out, we are having the sessions in our own home in the evenings and it was sort of amazing to have everything totally tailored to us by people who were very knowledgeable.

However, the homework was to basically listen to the CD and read the book and these were, erm, less than amazing. This is my second birth and my baby is currently breech so a) I am highly sceptical that a birth can be painfree just because of how you think about things and b) I DO NOT believe if this baby ends up breech it is because I am "holding it back".

Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't believe in the power of the mind.. and instinctively in my last labour I was very trancey and I did listen to a cheapo hypnosis for childbirth CD in pregnancy and in early labour and enjoyed it and feel it helped.. but there just was a lot of lentil-weavery woo stuff in the book, a load of old wives' tales (e.g. castor oil for induction) and I found it quite judgey in places.

That didn't bother me so much, because a book is a book.. but then the CD.. the woman's voice is warbly and old and reminds me SO much of a lay preacher at church that I find it really hard to relax to. I have used hypnosis cd's before for things like learning to drive and weightloss and was expecting to enjoy and find it relaxing, but it set my teeth on edge. It also seemed very different to other ones, it didn't count me down into relaxing or get me in the zone as I expected it to, it just seemed to be full of pronouncements that were quite loaded e.g. "you will choose the right place to birth your baby" (when the book is quite pointed about what the environment "should" be like).

Basically, I want to release my fears and feel calm.. but I just am not feeling it. Anyone else feel like this? The practitioners are great, a lot of the theory is helpful but the actual hypnosis bit... hmmm.. I might be more of an active birther! I just hope I can get something to justify the £187 I spent on it that will be useful on the Big Day..

Will come back later and give my thoughts on hypnobirthing, but the book made me think murderous thoughts and I had to have it removed from my hands to calm me down. I would say 'a little bit judgey' is a fairly mild way of putting it! I had a very calm and enjoyable labour, but used other techniques - not hypnobirthing.

That'll be Mickey on the CD! She wrote the course and is an absolute dynamo. I prefer the US version as it is easier to 'go' with an american accent than the UK one. A lot of hypnosis s riots are oddly worded bit that is because the brain works on a weird level, so you do need to choose wording carefully. Its all about being in control and relaxed. You will end up quite enjoying her voice and her pronunciation of 'bay-bee'.

I used to teach and I am not judgey at all! You do huhave to 'play along' almost - let yourself get into it. If you go along with the attitude 'ok then, so impress me!' then it is a harder thing to do. Although, 99% of the partners that attended were like this - all 'I don't want to be here, and since I am, I am not going to be impressed!'. They all converted when they saw how it actually works, is quite practical and isn't all mumbo jumbo. Mickey is a very intelligent woman (was Dean of a college before she wrote the course).

I used the techniques myself - and I am a complete wuss when it comes to pain, and knew which drugs I could have when as a backup. I didnt use drugs, just kept myself relaxed and chilled out. The course made sense to me - the whole why does it have to hurt thing, and understanding what was happening at each stage, so that you know what to expect.

Hypnosis riots? Hypnosis scripts - all hypnosis is carefully scripted!

I pregnant with DC2 and I'm reading the Mongon method book so I'm watching this thread with interest.
The book does piss me off in parts though, I had to have EMCS with DC1 (he almost didn't make it) and from the sounds of it, it was my fault because my body didn't so what it was supposed to. I hope I can overcome being annoyed with it, no chance of it working otherwise.

Generally we teach that sometimed things don't go to plan - no blame. Unfortunately, nature isn't perfect and there can be a million reasons. No-ones Fault.

I suppose I feel much the same Dontbugmemalone, I had a not-very-pleasant rotational/high forceps delivery.. however, rather than the tone of the book guilting me it irritates me on a factual level because I had an anterior placenta which accounted for the back to back position, my son did try very hard to turn during labour and they thought he had right up until the end when his 98th centile head got stuck.

Also, rationally, I remember what early labour was like, and how calm and in control and, really, lacking in fear I really was. I had a very flexible, go with the flow attitude, I wasn't tense or fearful. A lot of what I did really was no different to the hypnobirthing stuff.. I had been practising controlled breathing, I used stress balls as anchors, I visualised flying out over a gently rippling sea with the sun setting on it.. and I laboured really quite, quite well until it got to a point where I felt I needed an epidural because I was 5cms and the drip was going to be turned up. I don't see that I should feel even one whit of failure in any of it. Mongan would argue I should have refused induction after my waters went, but my grandmother lost her last child because of infection in this very circumstance so there wasn't a cat's chance in hell I would have even considered it for a second.

I chose hypnobirthing because the bit that I didn't like in my birth was the end, where it all went a bit manic and I felt out of control... but my answer to that is not to refuse medical assistance yada yada, I just want to stay calm no matter what happens. I can see how hypnosis can help with that, but I just don't see how it's helpful for her to have such a prescriptive attitude about it. The nice thing about the hypnosis cd's I used last time (Glenn Harrold - Joyful Pregnancy and Blissful Birth, he sounds like a gangster but strangely found this relaxing!) was that there was NO "this is the way your birth will be", it was much more "what will be, will be". That is what I expected from hypnobirthing but it is NOT what I am getting!

The other thing I did last time was I'd read Juju Sundin's Birth Skills.. and I used lots of this. And that was so REALISTIC. There was none of this "you will feel no pain" stuff, it was much more, it doesn't matter what happens, there are ways you can cope. Again, that is what I want.

TheJoyfulPuddleJumper, that is useful thanks. I have had AND and prenatal OCD this time and I know exactly what you mean, and I suppose that's what I'd hoped for to... a chance to connect, to calm down, to relax.. so I am very pleased it's been useful for that reason and it makes me feel it won't all be a pile of poo!

Frontpaw, I don't think mine is Marie Mongan, it's Katharine Graves I think.. and it's not so much the wording, it's that she has an actual warble in her voice and her intonation is very churchy, plus she seems to have breath control issues (former voice coach here!). I just find it really distracting! The practitioners aren't judgey, I just don't buy the whole "it won't hurt at all" thing. I found labour pain mainly manageable, I wasn't tense or panicked and I would have avoided the epi for longer if I could have moved... but I don't believe it will be pain-free just because it is muscular. I get pains in my legs walking up the stairs these days!

I did HypnoBirthing and had the American CD. I listened to it regularly and found it relaxing, but it was hard to take the woman seriously when she said things like "purple is the colour of your stomach." Despite that found my birth easier than anyone I know, so I'm guessing it helped.

I did natal hypnotheraphy and it did work for me. I think that with any pain there is both a physiological and pychological component. I believe that fear worsens the pain of childbirth and a relaxed mother is less likely to tear. Programmes like "One Born Every Minute" or people's bad birth stories do nothing to help.

Childbirth is risky but there is no point in worrying about bad things potentially happening. It helped me to leave the worrying to the midwife and live in the present during childbirth.

I suggest trying the strageries for coping with pain when you next have a blood test. Or if you really want a challenge try having your legs waxed and visualisation techniques at the same time. Medical hypnosis has been used for major operations, but it requires a lot of practice.

ReallyTired, it's not about pain for me. I didn't find the pain that bad and I'm not really frightened of it. I am frightened of things going wrong because my experience was a relaxed, calm labour followed by a frenetic delivery that I had no control over. A lot of the fear comes from seeing how suddenly things that appear to be going well change: now I have fear, I didn't then, but I still felt pain.

I am most interested in learning strategies to cope mentally in the present if unpredictable, frightening things occur. I sort of thought Hypnobirthing would be about that more than it is, it seems to be more or less about managing pain. I thought it would be more about accepting the unpredictability of birth somehow..

Joyful, that is good to hear! I also had PND and postnatal OCD/anxiety though I didn't realise it at the time and it's great to have hope it might not recur. My psychiatrist seems a bit downbeat about this which is discouraging! I will talk to the practitioners, and maybe try some other tapes if needs be... dh can do some scripts too. I think maybe just practising the breathing and focusing would be helpful as well, maybe to my own choice of relaxing music. One of them is a hypnotherapist as well so it might be something worth asking her about because perhaps I need something more specific about releasing my fears.

"I am frightened of things going wrong because my experience was a relaxed, calm labour followed by a frenetic delivery that I had no control over. A lot of the fear comes from seeing how suddenly things that appear to be going well change: now I have fear, I didn't then, but I still felt pain. "

OK, I see what you mean. I think your idea of seeing a hypnotheraphist for something more personalised is good. Prehaping breathing and listening to your choice of music sounds good.

Prehaps something else you could try is CBT to examine your thinking. Ie. do you blame yourself for having a traumatic birth?

i think hypnobirthing has a lot to offer and it is possible to take what u need or like from it and leave the rest. Personally i chose my practitioner v carefully as i didnt want one who wd guilt trip me if things went wrong. She was brilliant bc she actually said heres the book, but you dont really need to read it , just dip into what u find useful but basically i'll cover the key bits in my teaching. U cd do the same, just ignore the book, but take the good bits from the course, as it seems like yr teachers are good. Also maybe ask them for another cd. Oh, and the mongon method course uses the micky mongon rainbow relaxation cd, if u dont have that then maybe u arent doing mongon method hb course ie the accredited one.

Oh ReallyTired, I am throwing the psychological book at it at the moment. I am having CBT and something called Mindfulness therapy as well as seeing a psychiatrist and doing hypnobirthing. It is like Mind bootcamp around here at the moment . I kind of get a lot of it at this stage, it's more to do with childhood stuff.. but the timescale is short (about 7-9 weeks to go) and I won't probably have resolved all the ishoos by the time of the birth so just keen to get through it as best I can!

Umboo sounds a good plan, I think that they are accredited through Hypnobirthing UK which is run by Katherine Graves who trained with Marie Mongan but they are still allowed call it hypnobirthing I think.

Really sorry to have not read whole thread (little bit tipsy and tired) but if it helps and someone hasn't mentioned it before I'd say that hypnobirthing is mostly about being as relaxed as possible and trusting in your body to do what it naturally wants to do, not taking away the physical feelings of labour/birth.
FWIW I have always been slightly sceptical but having a hypnotherapist for a mother meant giving it a go to stop her going on and on at me Hypnotherapy did not stop my DSs rotten birth because a medical emergency is a medical emergency something that you, your DP and the medical practitioners around you will recognise and address should one arise.
I'm still not sure I wholeheartedly believe in hypnotherapy 100% but I know I had 5 manageable labours and 4 very successful deliveries (and 1 bit of a scary struggle but all was well thanks to the intervention of the staff)
Also slightly off track from your initial question but 2 labours were a result of induction and IME they were absolutely the worse labours, no question about it. I was pressured advised to have an induction twice after that but decided against it, a very difficult choice but turned out to be right in the end

The whole thing is about HB that is is 'no guilt'. I did have a client come to me for breech who was doing the course elsewhere and she really didn't like her tutor. Sometimes, as a therapist, things don't 'click' for some reasonbetween you and the client. Some therapists carry their own baggage. So its important to see someone you trust/quite like.

HB doesn't try to stop intervention - is exists and is necessary sometimes. HB helps you make calm decisions. I have had patients go into early labour due to a poorly mum/baby and the husband called me to say that they used the relaxation techniques to get them through the rough times (it was all ok in the end).

My own delivery was pain free, and as I said before, I am a complete wuss with a low pain threshold. it wasn't helped by 'someone' having his hands up to his chin ('so you think this is going to be easy do you?' Pose. It was honestly pain free, hard work at the end (it was late and I hadn't had breakfast) because of his position but just sensations, not pan.

not really no! i hardly got round to listening to the cd but got enough of the breathing and visualization stuff. i used natal hypnotherapy cds.

i gave birth to DS2 on Wednesday and found it v useful. will explain later, he's fallen asleep so I'd better do too!

read through a bit and see you're not so much worried about the sensations of birth but it's the fear of what may occur. So your issue really is one of trust? You have no blame whatsoever for what happened before ( or rather you shouldn't blame your body) On the whole the human body is a pretty outstanding thing. It gets so much right if we allow it to do what it naturally wants to do but as with everything in life sometimes it just goes off kilter.

There is unpredictability in most things but I think you just have to kind of be aware that things can change (one of the reasons why I never, ever even considered writing a birth plan) and have some faith in both yourself and those looking after you.

Basically yes and your partner needs to as well, he needs to tell the midwives to s t f u when they ask if you'd like the radio on despite having explained what you are doing etc. It does work.

Hi. This is a really interesting thread because I used HypnoBirthing for my 2 amazing births and now teach HypnoBirthing. I am a Certified HypnoBirthing Practitioner meaning that I have trained with the HypnoBirthing Institute and am have a current licence. Yes, the course was devised by an American but it's not an American course per se - after all, American and British mums and babies are identical in their anatomy.

OP, it sounds like you are doing a Katharine Graves course. She has used the same name but this is not the official course (although she'd like you to think that) so it comes with a different tone and perhaps less than the 12.5 hrs of the full official course. The JoyfulPuddle also mentioned Natal Hypnotherapy. It is not the GB version or HypnoBirthing. It's quite a different ethos and relies on mums really committing to practice.

The genuine HypnoBirthing course is not judgemental and not prescriptive about about how/where you give birth - all I want my expectant parents to achieve is a birth that they are happy with. One of the happiest birth stories I had involved a C-Section rather than the planned water birth, and yet the parents were thrilled because they had taken ownership of the process.

If you want to know more about the Official HypnoBirthing course there are some FAQs here
If you want a local Certified Practitioner you can find one here

Hi thunksheadontable, I think I've read other of your threads recently. I read your first post in this thread and thought - I'll recommend Ju Ju to her but I see you've already read her book and it meant something to you.

I have no experience of hypnobirthing, think I'm too much of a pragmatist for it but I am a great believer in positive thinking. That's why I think Ju Ju worked so well for me. I practised the Ju Ju techniques both times and have had 2 positive birth experiences, even better 2nd time around for being at home. I also used TENS and this combined with very loud "haaaa-ing" got me through both times.

It's likely your 2nd birth will be easier, many are, I would encourage you to revisit Ju Ju and keep in mind all those responses to the 'positive birth experiences' thread. You can do it, you've done it once before already even if the last bit wasn't all you'd hoped for, you survived and have a lovely DC. You'll get through it again, the hypnobirthing with the midwives sounds fab, why not concentrate on that and just ditch the bits that don't ring true for you and then you'll have a plethora of techniques up your sleeve.

My tips would be; gallons of raspberry leaf tea in the last 4 weeks and try to be mobile enough to get upright during active labour if you can.

DC3 is due in Oct. I'm hoping to do the same again.

You can do it :)

I found hb really helped me with unpredictable and potentially stressful hospital end to my to planned home birth. Thought I'd be frustrated and stressed esp on having third degree tear and a spinal to get stitched up, but I was unbelievably calm and happy throughout. Hb def helped me with that.

Agree 100% with nosy. I trained as I was already a therapist when I wanted to do the course (And therapists make the worsepatients as they are very skeptical and always argue back). So I did the certificate course and the little un came two and a half weeks later, so I didnt really have time to do the practise. It is quite a practical course (going into diet, relaxation, exercise...) so does give some sensible suggestions to help you get through it.

Nosey, it was the book I found judgemental though - the Marie Mongan one - not the practitioners. I felt it very much had an agenda... one of my practitioners is a fully qualified hypnotherapist as well as having done this Katharine Graves course and both are community midwives with more than 20 years experience each so I have no issue with them, the course I am doing isn't 12.5 hours but it is 10 hours over four nights and I would be sceptical about the difference in terms of dosage being such a big deal. I just found some of the stuff in the book a bit , like the idea that the effects of drugs result in long standing feelings of abandonment in a baby.