NCT to run classes for the NHS

[Ushy]

I heard this on the news this morning and groaned! I think they are a great organisation for making friends but I certainly would not want them running NHS classes. I have had varying reports from friends who attended courses given by different NCT teachers but mine was definitely 'natural good' 'and 'epidurals and caesareans bad'. Complete nonsense as most of our group ended up with complications. Annoyingly, there was no understanding that some of us don't want natural childbirth - not that we are 'fearful' or 'don't have confidence in our bodies - none of that - we just don't WANT it.

I think classes should be run by midwives in the NHS.
What to MNers think?

The NCT BF woman who talked at our antenatal classes was awful.

the whole thing was awful.

there is too much dependency on who you get with the NCT, whether they are any good or not

I think they get some training but not more than a few hours? Unless they're in a BF friendly area (?)

our local BF support group is run by an NHS HV - who also happens to be an NCT bfing Councillor.

local NHS classes are stretched to breaking point, and women who have signed up for an NCT class are advised (by the midwives) to not bother with the NHS classes, as they cannot cover as much as the NCT ones do.

I did NCT classes for this reason, and found the antenatal classes utterly unbiased, gave us fab information about all aspects of birth, and can't praise the quality of the teaching highly enough. The bfing session was atrocious though, so we complained about it.

I have no problems with trained antenatal teachers (they must complete a bachelors degree in antenatal something or other to be an NCT teacher) supplementing NHS resources. like with midwives, there will be some who have an agenda, some who don't have a clue, and others who are adequate, but there will be some who are excellent. Like with the NHS, it's luck of the draw.

It seems to be rare here to get decent bfing advice from the NHS. Sure, there are a few NHS drop in clinics but the woman who runs them is not very good IMO. NCT/LLL/BFN councillors have a lot of training and I think it is great for them to have NHS funded work.

Wow - Kveta - my MW was very keen I should do the NHS class as well as the NCT one, she said 'it's free so you may as well' and it certainly wasn't over-subscribed in my area...had maybe 10-12 women for the first class but that had dropped to about 8 or 9 by the last one. Don't know whether it's just luck of the draw in my area that there were plenty of spaces on the class.

The NCT teacher also recommended we all do the NHS breastfeeding workshop, even if we weren't doing NHS antenatal.

In my area NHS classes are practicallly non existeent and the ones that run have been run by an NCT teacher for years!

Who was excellent on the nct course and covered interventions etc in detail.

There is a bit of divergence of views about this. Can those who are NCT teachers or BF counsellors who will benefit from this say so in their posts.

There could be a conflict of interest in this discussioin

Nct brill balanced and thorough
Nhs 30 minutes on a Tuesday lunchtime no partners...

Wow what a lot of misinformation being touted as fact on this thread

The NHS are still the commissioner so can set standards and take steps to rectify any failure to meet those standards. The provider in some cases will be NCT but NHS has the responsibility for the service and quality of that service.

All NCT supplied breastfeeding counsellors and antenatal teachers are highly trained with a university diploma and on the job training. They are self-employed.

The figures quoted by the op for training are just wrong. So wrong, even with the new system and new university provider coming in.

NCT has been providing services in the community FOR YEARS. Often alongside health visitors and midwives.

Do you know how little training on breastfeeding NHS workers get?

Most of this information (with the exception of my last point) can be verified on the NCT's own website.

No conflict of interests here, Ushy. I was training to be a BFC for the NCT but stopped training for a number of reasons. Not sure why it'd be a conflict of interests though: as I'm sure you're aware, BFCs are largely volunteers and only get paid (small amounts) for teaching classes as part of an antenatal course. They also get around £15, I think it is, for doing a morning or afternoon of phone duty. I'm not an antenatal teacher either, but several of my branch are training. We can't get enough antenatal teachers locally, so a few of the branch are training as fast as possible. The very excellent MLU used to do NHS classes but they shrank and then stopped due to the heavy workload of the midwives there.

No desire to be an antenatal teacher or breastfeeding counsellor here. I just take the attitude it's better to deal in reality rather than hysteria.

Katie You said
"The figures quoted by the op for training are just wrong. So wrong, even with the new system and new university provider coming in"

but it is on their website - its on this link www.nct.org.uk/sites/default/files/related_documents/New%20Training%20Programme%20Information%20Sheet%20(8%203%2012).pdf

says £6,000 to £12000 and I am not sure if the £6000 isn't per year. That is a lot of money for someone to pay out only to find the classes can't be filled.

That's good. I hadn't seen the new fee structure - just the old one and some of the stuff on sponsored places. There are still sponsored places btw for those who cannot pay the fees in the form of grants, bursaries and sponsorship.

I think the new fees are much better. Before people were paying a fraction of the real cost then dropping out with the charity covering the costs - a read of any of the last couple of financial statements show the cost of training was exceeding the income from the courses.

I had to pay for both my degrees and all my professional training so I don't see why someone studying for these qualifications should do them for less than the cost while we still have student fees. Although I'd like to see fees for ALL students reduced/scrapped. I also don't think people become teachers and breastfeeding counsellors for the money - there's no guarantees, it's self-employed and need fluctuates although NHS and LA contracts being an element of certainty.

That said, the cost of training is not really the point. The point is the quality of the classes being delivered on behalf of NHS and I'd like to think the NHS would monitor and enforce minimum standards whether the practitioner was NHS, NCT, LLL, ABM or anyone else.

Iggly I have to correct you. As a qualified midwife I can assure you that during the 3 year training period to qualify, a LOT of that training focusses on breastfeeding. Many NCT teachers are not medically qualified.
Having said that, effective teaching is not just about being medically qualified, but as an earlier contributer pointed out, there are some excellent NCT teachers and some who are very passionate but are not cut out for teaching.

this happened when my NHS one was cancelled numerous times, we got a free NCT one come in - was AWFUL! there were women there under consultant care etc who were already booked for inductions and ECSs for various valid reasons and it was all VBs VBs VBs - anything else will damage your baby! really anti the consultant unit where lots of the woman were already booked for, everyone could and should choose natural natural natural (ignoring the REAL serious medical needs that some in the group had)

I think the NCT has its place, but it was not the appropriate class for many of the women in my NHS group who ended up with it - they (and I ) would never have chosen an NCt class

ETA would have been really useful for my particular group to have a hospital based midwife talk with proper knowledge about the hospital proceedures and our local hospital's policies.

NCT is fine for what it is, but its NOT appropriate for everyone

The hospital I had my babies in was the first to do NCT classes and we had people visiting to watch how the class worked whilst I was on the course. It was a good course (and I met an MNer there ) so I'm not worried about this news - although wouldn't change much here!

It does sound like NCT need to standardise their courses a little though.

The trouble with the Nct is that there's such a HUGE variation in what's taught, and how. The teachers are largely self selecting - you're unlikely to want to be an Nct teacher if you're v pro interventionist birth for example. The result is a widely varying standard of care, which sadly allows for foolish zealots to push their own "natural vb at all costs".
My own Nct teacher FIRMLY believes she's "non-judgemental" - it's on her website so it must be true! Yet when she was asked about cs by a woman who was booked in for one, said "oh yes we cover this as well as other things that can go wrong." She isn't even aware of her own bias.

Which is why the NHS needs to manage and regulate whoever runs their antenatal classes for them.

FWIW my NCT antenatal teacher was brilliant but if you get a crap one you need to feed back that they were crap. Otherwise how will NCT know?

I think the NCT is a good, well meaning organisation however I'd be a bit worried if they were to replace the option of nhs classes. I signed up for classes before having DD and naively without knowing NCT's philosophy. As a result, the very pro natural birth teacher disliked us from the start when I said I knew i wanted an epidural, was going to use disposible nappies, didnt want to co sleep and was unsure about if i wanted to bf. She was also utterly humourless and brought out knitted placentas etc and couldnt see why they were amusing. They are good for making friends though.

The classes, not the placentas!

One of tge reasons tge NCTM are getting business for classes is because tge NHS ones are so restricted or even don't happen. And to honest tge ones in my area are now a two hour session and there is only one session a month. If you don't sign up early enough then tough.

My NCT class was run by an NHS midwife, who also happened to be on duty the morning after DD was born so she did my discharge etc.

Complications and C-Section were all covered in a neutral way in my NCT class.