Elective caesarean

[MsMoo]

When I started to tell people that I was considering having an elective caesarean I was amazed to find that quite a lot of people thought I was being very selfish. It seems I might have been a bit naive to think people might accept it as my decision. Luckily there is this fab website www.csections.org which talks about all aspects of caesareans in a really informative and balanced way and I pointed people to that. I found that many of the accusations people were throwing at me were either ill informed or downright wrong. Am I on my own or are any of you finding the same thing when telling people?

Aloha is totally right about the c/s being better than a ventouse/forceps. My dd was born in Nov and had a ventouse delivery as she hadn't fully rotated and went into distress.

After that she developed pathological jaundice and I spent 5 days of hell in the neonatal ward being told she had an infection but they didn't know what, first a blood infection then a urine infection. In the end both were ruled out and they never found the cause of the jaundice but they admited it was probably the ventouse delivery. The bruising and shock was too much for her.

Also a week later, a piece of placenta fell out of me in the middle of the night, despite having been told that my third stage was 'complete'. I had to rush to a& e and was given 2 types of antibiotics and was put on iron tablets for a month (thank goodness I avoided a blood transfusion).

Both the jaundice and the retained placenta would most probably have been avoided if I'd had a caesarian and with baby no. 2 I will definitely ask for an elective (like most of you, the thought of hours of labour to end up with an emergency c/s also fills me with dread).

Maybe there is no 'right' answer to this. I didn't mention that my second was a forceps delivery and I STILL found it a better experience!
I think you can ask 100 women and you'll get a hell of a lot of different stories. But it is an indisputable fact that c-sections are major surgery and it is never risk free. I must be honest and say that I don't believe the medical profession put people off for bad reasons. If anything they're usually criticised for doing too many c-sections!

AnnieSG - natural childbirth definitely isn't risk-free either - that is also an "indisputable fact". That's why women want to be able to weigh up what route they'll take. There isn't a guarenteed outcome under either option. What's important is that we support each other's decisions and not turn it into an exam where there is a "right" and "wrong" answer.

The medical profession (esp the NHS) are influenced by targets. After all their funding and existence depends on them meeting these targets. By setting a target on c/sections (which was mainly based on cost) you are of course influencing the advice that ob/gyn consultants give. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in setting the target. The fact that the target has been in part "successful" in reducing the number of c/sections doesn't really reflect anything to do with the risk of c/sections or whether individual women would "prefer" c-sections. It is just one of the outcomes of having a publicly funded health service.

aloha - I think you misunderstood my comments, maybe I didnt phrase them right. Having had an emergency section and having an elective this april, I have faced the usual too push to push jokes, even though there are medical reasons for me requiring sections. When my dd was born, there was tremendous pressure for the hospital to reduce the amount of c-sections by the government. Because of this media hype at the time, I was refused a section at 39 weeks despite evidence that I would never go into labour and baby would never engage after 4 attempts at induction at that time. I was made by the jospital to go 20 days overdue (4 weeks after original induction) before being put into labour by an agonising pelvic assessment which tore my birth canal and made me bleed heavily. I was then made to endure 24 hours of labour before them admitting that yes, I had been right all along and the baby would never engage so had to have an emergency section and a terrible recovery.

It simply infuriated me that a perfectly healthy lady opposite me in bed had been allowed to choose a section because her dad was a GP and she was concerned about tearing her birth canal (no medical or psychological reasons) and I had been through a traumatic month, labour and section with tears all over my birth canal and a huge section scar that had been botched because it was a rush. I am angered at the difference in our treatment, not at the lady. I simply think she should have had some discussion about the pros and cons of each type of delivery in a healthy mother with a healthy pregnancy and healthy baby.

Go ahead and flame me now, but at least I've put my point of view accross

hockeymum it is absolutely outrageous that you were refused an elective section first time around.

I've learned so much from mumsnet about the whole question of elective c-sections, thanks to Aloha and others.

You can have an elective caesarean if you really want one and are prepared to fight for it. Mark it all over your notes that this is your desire. Copy your notes. And tell the hospital you've copied your notes. If they sstill resist, ask them if they are prepared to take full responsibility for anything that MIGHT go wrong in natural delivery. And remind then that if you are forced to have a natural delivery, it will have been their choice, not yours. You just have to go in tough and demand what you want.

I wish I'd known more about this a few years ago. My mother and I strongly suspect that the reason my DSis has never had children is that she's absolutely petrified of giving birth vaginally. When I'd just had DS1 (six and a half years ago now) she said that she'd love to have a baby if someone would just hand her one and she didn't have to give birth to it. I didn't know at the time that insisting on an elective was an option at all.

i too had a emergency section with dd1 as i had pre-eclampsia they tried inducing me 1st (2 weeks early) however i didnt actually know the full extent of how serious my condition was as they didnt really explain. it was only after 6 hours of "labour" where nothing actually happened i was told by the doctor that if i didnt have an emergency c section then either me or my baby could have died. if i had been informed properly of the condition and how serious it was then i too would have opted for an elective. luckily i bonded with my dd1 no problem although my recovery was a slow painful process compared to that of another lady who had an elective c section, so i dont think you were wrong at all to chose this option if you thought it to be best for yourself and baby (congratulations by the way) having said this my dd2 was a vaginal birth which i found incredible as i was lucky enough to have two vgood mw's. if (but i wont) i chose to have another i would opt for another v birth as it is what worked best for me.

I COMPLETELY support reducing cs rates for those who don't want them or who may not need them. But this should be done by improving maternity services - more, kinder midwives, more staff, more anaesthetists etc etc. Otherwise a target to simply reduce them will IMO cause more prejudice against and less choice for the very small number of women like me, who actively want caesarians, and, even worse, a reluctance to perform caesarians for women who need them except when things have got absolutely desperate - and that's when babies die.

I'd disagree with you there Aloha. No woman should have to justify her birth choice. I certainly didn't 'need' a CS, but it's my right to choose one if I want to

Interestingly, it's amusing that women are expected to make an informed choice with regards to CS, but it's perfectly acceptable to be ignorant of the dangers of a conventional birth

You'd disagree with me - what bit do you disagree with?

I think ladymuck hit the nail on the head "There isn't a guarenteed outcome under either option."

I only wish that childbirth (in both it's forms) were dealt with fully and fairly in the antenatal classes and meetings (i.e. with the NHS staff) such that we could face our births with less fear and more knowledge with better memories resulting.

Thank you to everyone for such supportive and informative responses. I am glad to hear so many down to earth views.

sorry aloha - the bit where you said you were in favour of reducing CS rates for those who may not need them. I disagree with that. IMO, doesn't matter if you need one or not; it's a birth choice that should be respected.

Can you imagine if Men were the ones giving birth? I think the elective c-section rate would be around the 99% mark! Just do it any way you want - as long as baby arrives safe and well, who cares? The only thing I would say is that although I was terrified, I wanted to know what labour was like, and that I could do it - and I'm proud and pleased that I did.

Sorry Highlander, I meant to type 'for those who don't want them AND may not need them' - does that make more sense?

Taffindra, if men could get pregnant they would stop wanting to have sex. What a strange world that would be.

MsMoo - agree with you about antenatal classes. I didnt really think about it before I had DS by ecs, but afterwards it seemed outrageous that sections were hardly touched upon in the classes.

I do believe that ultimately the choice is with each individual, however, when my friend, currently 36 weeks pg, has been offered a section by her private consultant at 37 weeks, just because she is 'fed up' is pushing it all a bit too far imo.

Can anyone help. I live in Bristol and would like to arrange an elective C-section. I have considered having a termination as I am terrified of giving birth naturally. I havn't had a decent nights sleep since I found out I was pregnant four months ago. Neither have I spoken to a doctor/midwife as I'm terrified people will think I'm so pathetic.

Sammyh - I think it's natural to be scared of birth. You should discuss this with the midwives, however, they've heard it all before and won;t think you pathetic. You might find you change your mind as time goes and you read more about all birth options (I've had two vaginal deliveries and a an elective CS).

Sammyh, in my antenatal class, there were two women who requested elective caesareans and didn't have medical necessity. You should ask the midwives to refer you to the consultant ASAP, and o to see him. If you get resistance from the midwives, go see your GP. How far along are you? Are you booked into a hospital? If so, what is their caesarean rate (high or low)? You can look it up on www.birthchoice.co.uk. You might also want to have a look at www.drfoster.co.uk.

You must get to the consultants (or their registrars) if you want to talk about elective caesarean. The midwives will probably oppose this request. And, the consultants might too. If you really want this, you can probably get it. But you will have to very determined in your arguments.

I had an emergency caesarean with my first child and an elective with my second. So, I know what it is like to have a caesarean. It's not THAT bad... but it isn't really my idea of fun either. Are you sure this is what you want? If so, come back her for advise. And I (and others) will support you.

This might interest you. \link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1365&threadid=152309&stamp=060313082641\elective caesarean}