Really, really hate the idea of forceps or ventouse... please share your thoughts on declining them and proceeding to C section instead

[LoveInAColdClimate]

I think I'm probably being a bit silly. I really, really hate the idea of either forceps or a ventouse delivery, to the point where I am considering putting on my birth plan that in the event that either is necessary, I would prefer a C section. I'm not even sure why I loathe the idea so much that I'm prepared to opt for major surgery instead. Has anyone refused forceps/ventouse? If so, why? How did the hospital react? Were you pressured to agree? Has anyone had them and found it not really that bad? Am I worrying unecessarily (and possibly focusing my fear of the birth into this one area)?

Will the hospital always discuss their use with you before doing it? A gradutate of my active birth class was convinced that forceps had been used on her without consent, but she did say she was so out of it that she might have consented without really realising.

TIA.

"accept that incredibly umpleasant things are going to happen to me in the course of getting this baby out"

Are you feeling scared by fear of the unknown or have you had a bad birth experience? Many women have good birth experiences. I enjoyed the birth of my second child even though it was painful in parts.

I think extreme fear/ anxiety can make interventions like forceps more likely. Have you tried the natal hypnotheraphy CDs. I found that they helped me to sleep better during pregnancy.

Thanks, everyone.

Callin - really good advice about making sure DH questions why things are needed even if I'm too out of it to make decisions. Thanks.

reallytired - completely fear of the unknown. I've never given birth, broken a bone, had an operation etc so am very worried about how I will cope with it all. My only experiences of pain have been things like migraines and stubbed toes so I am assuming this will be a bit more ouchy... I haven't enjoyed the pregnancy leg cramps at all so am bricking it a bit about coping with much, much worse pain.

I do have some hypnotherapy CDs but find it hard to relax to them - will try again, though.

Would take contractions over migraines any day of the week!

ReqLlama - that's reassuring! Hope I think the same after the birth...

I had forceps delivery 3 weeks ago. I found the whole birth experience positive despite this. I absolutely promise you it will be fine and I felt the same as you in advance!

DD was distressed with significant marconium in her waters. They gave me 30 minutes to push and the lovely senior registrar gave it to me straight saying 'it's unlikely you'll do it and your baby needs to come out as her heart rate is dropping but the harder you push the less i'll have to do to help you'.

Best advice ever. Pushed like mad and ended up with a low forceps to lift her out at the end. Had an episiotomy but no internal damage and it is all but healed 3 weeks later.

I also had all this on gas and air and i wont lie it was very painful in the actual moment but it passed in an instant and they gave me loads of anaesthetic for the stitches

DD is perfect - not a mark on her and she was fine as soon as she was out. I couldn't have had her pushed back up for a CS and the thought of lying still for an epidural while contracting and having massive urge to push terrifies me! Plus this would have taken too long and who knows what would have happened to DD?

With regards to stitching it is my understanding that as experienced dr uses the forceps they will also stitch you. My guy was amazing - lovely job and kept kindly taking me how beautiful DD was and how brave I'd been. Felt about 10 foot tall under his praise!

The only thing that bothered me was people telling me afterwards 'oh, you had it hard'. I felt fine about it and was thrilled DD was fine and with how well I recovered so didn't want to hear it!

BTW I also did NCT and ante natal yoga. Helped to keep me calm throughout but I realise now that there is another person involved in birth and they might dictate the manner of their own arrival!

Pastabee - what an amazing birth story - it's so nice to hear a positive story that didn't entirely match the birth plan! Your doctor sounds really lovely, and it sounds like you did brilliantly.

LIACC - sometimes I think it's not even the fear of the forceps/ventouse/CS, but the fear that all these things may happen to you, and you may have very little control over it.

I think I was a bit like you before dd. I'd never been ill, never been in hospital or broken any bones. The worst pain I'd felt was a tooth absess! Added to that I always get nervous about smear tests and my BP always rises if I go in the Dr's surgery. I was worried about an episiotomy particularly - the thought I would hear the scissors cutting me I think. (sound familiar?)

I wouldn't totally agree with some other posters that have said "You'll be so out of it you won't care what happens" as I never really 100% felt like that. I kept my nightie on thoughout labour and had to take my pants off for the pushing stage!

As it turned out, after a long labour (I got an epidural near the end) and 2 hours pushing she wasn't coming. A consultant came and did try forceps, which weren't successful, but I wasn't cut for this attempt. I remember giving consent, as even through the haze/pain you know when things are turning serious. DD was eventually born by EMCS in the end. I was glad I wasn't recovering from a CS and an episiotomy at the same time.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that labour doesn't have to be something that happens to you, you can exercise some control over what you want to happen, but be prepared that you might have to be a bit flexible if things aren't textbook. Good Luck

I had failed ventouse and forceps with DD1 and forceps with DD2. My experience was that time was of the essence and they needed to get her out so CS wasn't an option, both times. I'm not going to lie, forceps the first time were the most painful thing I've ever experienced. Second time they used them to guide baby out rather than pull her out so they weren't bad.
Both times I recovered from the episiotomy within 2 weeks and was much more mobile much sooner than my friends who had CS. I would therefore choose intervention over CS any day.

I had a ventouse delivery-I would be happy to have another one if I needed assistance, even though I was very disappointed at the time. It was pain free, I still had a part to play and the small cut that was reportedly necessary was not something I was ever aware of, during or after the birth, if you know what I mean. It's not necessarily a Bad Thing. I would be much more worried about CS.

My birth plan was stuck to religiously up to the need for assistance point (I got so knackered after 2 hours pushing that my contractions stopped), at which point the very nice registrar took over. The only thing that has continued to bother me was the fact that they cut the cord before it started pulsing!

I had forceps with DS, I'd rather have that anyday than a CS. Why do people think having a CS is the easier option?

If the baby is far enough down the birth canal to require either forceps or ventouse then it will prob be too late for a C section... I had the help of a ventouse to birth my ds and it was fine. I had an episiotomy which healed beautifully. He came out with his hand up by his face . I also had a CS with dd and I can tell you that I preferred the ventouse by about a million times!!! Why don't you make an appt and have a chat with your hv about the use of both and see if she can set your mind at rest?

LoveInAColdClimate - great to see so much support and great posts on here for you. Really glad to hear that you're looking at NCT & yoga, it will help I'm sure and as above, I'd just say try to stay as positive as you can, focus on the best gift ever at the end and what will be will be! x

I am so, so touched by all the posts here - I'll come back individually later as currently on iPhone and going to bed! Thank you all so much for all the stories and support.

OMG ShowOfHands*'s post made me splatter my coffee on my laptop screen! "trudging across the neighbour's lupins with midwife behind begging me to get dressed" - epic

Love, after 4 hours of pushing I was given the choice of forceps or C-section, and I will always regret that I allowed them to try with forceps. The damage was unbelievable, as was the emotional trauma after. I won't TMI you here, part of my story is all over the Ragged Bits thread.

My personal opinion is that you should put in your birth plan "NO FORCEPS, NO VENTOUSE". If there is time to ask you, there is time to make a choice.

ConfuddledDOTCOM posted on another thread about TBRAINS:

1. Always remember your TBRAINS. Always talk to them, this is your body, your birth, your baby - never be afraid to ask them anything. TBRAINS is

Time/ Talk - do we have time to talk about this? If they say no, nothing else matters, this is serious do what they want! If they say no because they're brushing you off too busy then push them.

Benefits - what are the benefits to doing this?

Risks - what are the risks of doing this?

Alternatives - what alternatives do I have, what are my options?

Instinct - what's it telling you? Usually mums know what's going on better than they think.

Nothing - what would happen if we do nothing? Wait and see? Delay things?

Smile - it makes you feel better and can diffuse a tense situation.

I wish you all the best.

If you haven't already, I would read up on the possible after effects of a CS, not to put you off but so that in the event of having one you are ready for what might happen, e.g. horrid trapped wind, constipation (two weeks in my case!), catheterisation etc. Also you might feel a sense of loss for the 'normal' birth you haven't had.

Of course the most likely scenario is an unassisted birth! But being prepared for other scenarios will help if they happen. Good luck.

I had a forceps delivery nearly 8 weeks ago. I was 2 weeks early & my birth plan was still typed up nicely on my computer at home, not printed & with my notes so i basically told my OH the bullet points. One being if assistance required i'd prefer vontouse over forceps but will go with whatever is recommended for the situation.

I didnt have a lovely birth & baby's heart rate was erratic so consultant was called in to check me. He was very good and explained to me in a simple calm way that baby was distressed & needed to come out quickly and so they suggested forceps. My OH spoke up & said i'd prefer vontouse (i was a bit out of it & was quite exhausted by then so couldnt really string together sentences, just words). Consultant said yes they would try, explained what would happen if that didnt work. He also talked to me the whole way through about what he was doing and when. I had an episiotmy & have a 4th degree tear but am recovering a lot better than my friends who have had sections. However - Do not think what happened to me will happen to you, there were a lot of other things that lead to my tear than the forceps alone.

I would say that you are doing the right thing to find out a bit beforehand and then know what your preference would be for any situation. Definitely make sure your birth partner knows this as i found trying to answer questions or talk through contractions really hard so my OH could answer properly for me while i focused on breathing and squeezing his hand till it nearly cut off the circulation

I would just like to say that some people here have suggested you have no control when you are in labour and won't 'have a choice'. As a patient, unless you are mentallyt incompetent you ALWAYS have a choice. The people caring for you may advise against it, but you can always decline any options offered. You can certainly ask for a c-section instead of forceps or ventouse, and those caring for you at the time will let you know whether that is an option and explain why. There are reasons why it might be slower and could put your baby at risk. Equally, it might be possible.

Interestingly, Michel Odent (google him) appears to be of the view that forceps and ventouse should not be used.

If you really are adamant you'd rather avoid them, then a homebirth might be your best option. Have you researched it?

I can only tell you my birth experience, I was also adamant that I wasn't having forceps or ventouse. I even decided I didn't want an epidural in case it made me unable to push hard enough despite my contractions being 7/10 (I think that's what they told me) so I wasn't getting a gap between them to recover!

It only took me 4 hours to get from first contraction to 10cm and I was thinkin how lucky to have had a short birth! I then started pushing and ds changed position and I couldn't shift him.

I was pushing for 2.5 hours, I was at the point that I could no longer feel the contractions and I was mentally away with the fairies but I know I refused to consent to forceps, although I agreed for episiotomy despite not wanting to as the midwife had told me I would probably tear badly as ds was big and (her words) I wasn't stretching very much down there!!

I didn't realise at the time but ds's heart rate was dropping and in the end dh had a quiet word with the consultant who was there and told him that ds may be in danger if they didn't get him out quickly. Dh asked about c section but was told they would probably have to use forceps to get him out that way as ds was too far down the birth canal.

I begged for slightly longer to push, they told me they would let me keep pushing while they got the forceps ready. I had a mw telling me when she could see my contraction on the monitor and I pushed with renewed vigour as I was so desperate to avoid the forceps.

Anyway, I managed it. I think I had basically given up, and that immediate threat of forceps and knowing my ds was in trouble gave me the second wind to be able to manage to do it myself. I know all births are different but I've never felt such a sense of accomplishment! Turns out the cord was around ds's neck so I'm glad he came out when he did.

The episiotomy was sore afterwards but was all healed up within 3 weeks, me and dh first made love again 5 weeks after the birth. I'm glad I didn't choose to tear as I didn't feel the episiotomy and would probably have needed stitches either way!

Good luck with the birth, FWIW the mw I had looked at my birth plan and even commented after about how close the birth ended up being to what I'd wanted so I know she must have paid some attention to it!!

I guess I might differ slightly from the consensus here...OP I felt exactly like you when I was pregnant (my 1st). I wasn't too afraid of ventouse but I was adamant about no forceps. I know two people who have suffered lifelong disabilities because of forceps, and where I come from (US) Keillands are banned. I then found out DS was at the 99% for size, and was even more against the idea.

My community midwife and the junior doctors at the hospital told me they wouldn't rule anything out and I could not really choose a CS over forceps. However, when I saw the senior consultant the one who would actually be doing the forceps if needed he said that given my circumstances there was no way he would use forceps, it would be more dangerous than a section. This reassured me, but I was still very stressed about getting different responses to my concerns and wondering what might actually happen on the day.

In the end I had to have an EMCS, which I recovered from quite nicely. I actually had a better recovery and less time in hospital than some women with instrumental deliveries, so I don't think you can always say instrumental is better.

I think it's good if you prepare yourself mentally for the idea that anything might happen. But I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing for a CS instead of forceps, if that's how you feel.

OP great that you're going to do NCT, at ours we did a pretend EMCS and all had to take roles from labouring Mum to anaethetist. I appreciate working back from worst case scenario and going through what might happen in a relaxed environment with us all piping up our concerns and questions really helped. We also covered every type of pain relief from hypnotherapy to spinal block, for some reason I fixated on not wanting pethidine but can't remember why.

When it came to it I did hypnobirthing for 12+ hours, I wasn't allowed the MLC as had raised BP but after declining induction was left to get on with it. I eventually requested a mobile epidural and they broke my waters, there was merconium so I as warned that I'd only be allowed so long to push. They talked me through all the possibilities, if intervention was necessary they'd use ventouse first, they may need to move to a theatre at short notice as if unsuccessful may do EMCS but would start in the room, the lights (which had been down low) would need to go up, everything was discussed and I felt very prepared. DD got a bit stuck and as MW was convinced I was pushing efficently (her words) they called in the consultant for ventouse. It got quite busy with the other bods in the room, I had a top up with the epidural (gin & tonic for the spine - I loved it had had sciatica and been unable to lie or even sit down for all of labouring so was very relieved) they attached the dyson and DD was out on the second go. I did have an episiotomy (can't remember if NCT or MW said generally better than tearing) healed fine for me. DD had a slight red mark on her head for a few hours but utterly perfect and fed, slept well from the off.

To my mind that was natural childbirth, not quite the hypnobirthing and water birth I'd first hoped for but great all the same. I think the first thing for a birth plan is keep your options open and research them all.

and get in lavender and tea tree oils for baths when you get home. really helped with the healing downstairs.

And witchhazel, I think it's BP, that you can put drops of on a pad. Lovely.

Thanks for all the comments! Am on iPhone and have been tied up with work all day but will come back properly ASAP to answer the questions and reply individually to people. Thank you again.

Before I gave birth my real fear was an episiotomy (sp?). Literally petrified that it would really really hurt and I would be much wider down below afterwards.

In the event, DD's heart rate dropped and they needed to get her out quickly. That was the ONLY thing I cared about. Don't remember them using the ventouse, so it can't have hurt that much. I remember the midwife saying we're going to cut you and I just said 'OK thanks'.

Recovery was really easy, strong painkillers for a couple of days. stitches healed and dissolved within two weeks. Second the lavender oil, and also witch hazel on a sanitary pad, chilled in the fridge. Hurt down below at first, but I could pick my baby up when she cried and that was all that mattered.

My body a year on is pretty much back to what it was before (save the boobs - but that's a different thread). Good luck - it doesn't always have to be awful!

I had ventouse and forceps, at the time I didn't care I just wanted him out and safe. It did feel as though it took a long time to heal from it and from the episiostomy, however it was easier healing than a C Section.

My friend by the way, was in exactly the same position as me about 2 hours later than me, and refused the forceps and had a C Section (well I think she was out of it on gas& air, I think her mum refused on her behalf!). But she had had a nightmare long induction and there were good reasons for her to believe it wasn't going to work. I don't think there were any problems in refusing at that point.

But the absolute best thing about not going down the C Sec route first time round was that I had a wonderful 2nd birth that would not have been possible if I had had a C Sec 1st time (due to meconium in waters I was only allowed to carry on labouring because I had delivered vaginally before) - I realise this probably isn't your most pressing concern at the moment!

On the hypnobirthing - I never got round to reading the book properly, but I used some of the breathing techniques for the good 2nd birth and I was amazed that it really did help. 1st time round they kept saying I was too stressed which is why I wasn't progressing, 2nd time they couldn't believe how calm I was.

Good luck.