Really, really hate the idea of forceps or ventouse... please share your thoughts on declining them and proceeding to C section instead

[LoveInAColdClimate]

I think I'm probably being a bit silly. I really, really hate the idea of either forceps or a ventouse delivery, to the point where I am considering putting on my birth plan that in the event that either is necessary, I would prefer a C section. I'm not even sure why I loathe the idea so much that I'm prepared to opt for major surgery instead. Has anyone refused forceps/ventouse? If so, why? How did the hospital react? Were you pressured to agree? Has anyone had them and found it not really that bad? Am I worrying unecessarily (and possibly focusing my fear of the birth into this one area)?

Will the hospital always discuss their use with you before doing it? A gradutate of my active birth class was convinced that forceps had been used on her without consent, but she did say she was so out of it that she might have consented without really realising.

TIA.

I like your friend's thinking, lljkk! I think my fear is (selfishly) mostly related to injury to me. I vaguely remember hearing or reading some story as a teenager about a really dreadful tear which I think involved forceps. But I fully appreciate that awful tears can happen with or without intervention, so not sure why it's fanjo intervention that I have focussed on so strongly.

Foxy - that's reassuring, thanks.

Would I always be given an epidural before forceps were used, or might there not be time? Would the pain be dreadful (within the context of what's going on in the area anyway!) if there isn't time?

Oh we moved. It was for the best. Our neighbour was a clown at children's parties but even his sense of humour couldn't stomach my behaviour whilst labouring.

And can I just reassure you that frightened as you are, what you will go through will become the story of how you met your child. And one day you'll tell your child all about it and they will gaze at you in wonder. That's all it is. The day you finally meet.

I was going to refuse forceps delivery with DD. She was head down but facing sideways so couldn't descend. I had to have a drip to strengthen my contractions and lie on my left to see if gravity would shift her. It did in the end and I had a vaginal delivery without ventouse or forceps.

However they were explaining to me what would happen if she didn't move. I would have my epidural topped up (already had one in) and get taken to theatre. I would be given an episiotomy and forceps used to twist and then deliver baby. This needed to be done in theatre as if it failed an immediate emergency c section would be necessary. I was going to refuse the forceps for two reasons. Firstly I did not want to have to recover from the episiotomy from failed forceps and c section. Secondly I was worried about the risk of injury to the baby from this kind of forceps delivery. In different circumstances I would allow forceps or ventouse but in the situation I was in I didn't feel it was necessary.

Thanks to other posters too. I am going to active birth yoga classes and start NCT soon, but the focus in yoga is very much on it all being fairly natural - hoping NCT might set my mind at rest a bit on what will happen if it's not as smooth as hoped...

Love - I had forceps AND em c-sec. Ug.
But i promise that, while my stomach now looks very odd, my pelvic floor is fine.
I did do all that ghastly olive oil - vag massage stuff before hand, however.
Also, while birth can be traumatic (and I think mine was) you DO get over it and it is like being on some weird trip - hence nude lupin type behaviour :)

at SOH moving and welling up at your other post. Thank you.

Milly - that is my worst fear... having to recover from two injuries. Glad it worked out for you.

X-posts with zumm - you have lived through my worst fear and survived . I have great plans for starting massage soon but think I may need to get DH involved if the bump gets much bigger. Thank you.

In my case they tried first the ventouse, then forceps and then an emergency c section. I doubt they would go first to emergency section if you are pushing and there are no other problems. The ventouse was OK, and the forceps were horrible, but they didn't cut me to use them - I told them not to, so that was fine.

An emergency c section is worse than the other 2 assisted delivery methods, believe me. I wouldn't have an emergency section without exploring other avenues first.
A planned c section on the other hand (my second delivery) was blissful.

I had a ventouse delivery in theatre as a last resort to try to avoid a cs - the staff didn't expect it to work so were doing it mostly to reassure me I'd tried everything.

They said on the count of three, you push, we pull. One, two, three, oh my god, there's his head! He simply popped out! I'd had an epidural, and there was an episiotomy involved - best advice I got was to say you want any cutting or stitching done by an expert, no students, as by the next day it was healing beautifully and being admired by midwives! He had about an inch-across red circle on his head which was almost invisible under all the birth gunk.

I found writing my birth plan in terms of my feelings, eg "I am terrified of an epidural but as I can't take pethidine I'll be stuffed if gas and air doesn't cut it", "please get my explicit consent for ANY touching or examination" led to the staff being really considerate and sympathetic and ensuring everything was explained to me so that I felt in control even when the birth didn't go as smoothly as hoped.

Hopefully in a couple months I'll go to the MLU again and dc2 will come out there rather than requiring all the palaver of last time.

So they can do forceps or ventouse without cutting you, then? That does sound marginally better...

If I do need to be cut, can I demand that it be done by a registrar/consultant, then, or will it need to be done so quickly that the job will fall to the nearest person who can hold a scalpal?

Thanks so much to everyone who is posting, I am so grateful.

Yes they can do them without cutting you - but it takes skill. My midwife was impressed. Don't know if they can do it for everyone, but I was adamant that they WOULD NOT CUT ME. I had no physical ill effects from the forceps, just a few bad memories about the commotion that went on and my OH fainting when he saw the forceps! At the end of the day, when you're pushing in labour, you actually don't care what happens to you very much, you just want the baby there safely and that's foremost in your mind at the time. You'll be fine.

Thanks, Becca. I am struggling to imagine this stage of labour where I don't care what is happening as long as the baby is ok... did you have the same thing before the birth or am I especially selfish/unimaginative?

All I thought about was not wanting a C section - Forceps didn't even occur to me. I'm sure you will be fine - whichever way the baby comes out, it will hurt, but it's worth every minute when you hold your baby for the first time!!

I was mortified by the idea of forceps but it was actually fine- my recovery was far easier I imagine than a c section. The episiotomy healed quickly and easily and when they were using the forceps I had no idea it was happening, no pain, didn't have to watch it or feel the stitches! Don't worry yourself about it - noone wants forceps of course- but the thought of them is worse than the actual experience!!

I was told they would have to cut me as forceps where going in the opposite way to how they normally do then the would twist them along with baby. If you have ventouse/forceps these would be done by a consultant. However if you needed an episiotomy in a non assisted birth the midwife would do it. They don't do it without good reason usually to get baby out quick or prevent a worse tear. Oh and they don't do it with a scalpel they do it with scissors.

Loveinacoldclimate I feel very similarly to you with an inexplicable fear of forceps ( not pg yet though!) so watching this one with interest. I think for me also it's something to do with the idea of sustaining damage to my body - that in the course of using them, what happens to my body is so low on anyone's priorities as to be pretty much incidental. The fact that forceps have changed very little from the middle ages does not reassure me either - surely if the human race can design something as wondrous as an iPhone it can improve on the design of forceps?!!?

Also, if you have had no pain relief they give you a spinal instead of an epidural (pretty much the same but goes in deeper and quicker) I remember saying to DP that they were quick with the pain relief and getting me into theatre- turns out I had been pushing for 1hr 20mins and it felt like 5 mins!! Don't worry whatever happens you will be fine and as other posters have said- it just becomes your story! One you will oddly and proudly tell for years afterwards!!

An episiotomy isn't as you would imagine. Have you ever fallen, say, and grazed your hand badly? It is sore, you probably avoid using it or touching it off things unnecessarily, you feel a bit sorry for yourself while it is painful, it makes you wince at various points in the recovery and it is a royal pain in the arse that you wish you didn't have to put up with. But you do put up with it, and after a period of time, it is forgotten.

If I handed you a piece of coarse sandpaper, however, and told you that you had to graze yourself to the same extent, wouldn't the idea be unbearable? The thought of that pain would actually probably be worse than the pain itself.

For the majority of us, I think episiotomies are a bit like this. No one wants them, the thought is terrifying.. but if you have one, you feel a bit sorry for yourself and sore and bruised for a period of time and then you heal and it's forgotten.

You think because it is somewhere so delicate and intimate that it is going to be worse than other cuts/bruises etc but although it is pretty irritating that you can't sit down and going to the loo can be frightening for a bit, you get on the internet, find out about all the remedies like peeing in warm water or putting witch hazel on a pad, treat it and get on with things. You are also pretty busy with a baby!

I had a Kielland's forceps delivery, and it was scary. I will tell you that now. It was particularly scary as I had been having a lovely relaxed time and suddenly there was all this shouting and movement and panic and I was afraid and didn't know what was happening. If I'd watched One Born Every Minute before birth I would have realised this is not that uncommon, and might have been less afraid.. but that fear, at not feeling in control, was far worse than any of the physical after-effects of birth and was really because I didn't realise how typical this experience can be for women.

But despite that, despite the episiotomy, even though I had some back and hip trouble after it, I would do it again in a heartbeat to get a baby out and out safely. I sometimes think that when I was pregnant with my first, I thought as much about my experience of labour as about the outcome I wanted (a safe uninjured baby) but this time, now that I really understand what it is to have a baby more fully, I am more realistic that it might have unpleasant bits in but if it all works out, all of that will fade in time. I am no fan of forceps, I tell you that.. but they are a "needs must" instrument and in the circumstance, if someone says the baby is tiring or its heart is slowing/can't be found, I just wouldn't really care...

I'm in Spain, so maybe slightly different, but here goes:
DS (1st baby) was born at 36 wks. The labour was spontaneous and I dilated v quickly (waters went at 7am after a few hours mild cx, I was 5cm on arrival at hospital at 9am and he was born just before 11am). Once at hospital his heart rate began dropping massively during cx so we were rushed to delivery suite. It turned out he was back to back and not descending properly so a ventouse was used.
In terms of pain relief, I was actually given an epidural just before. There's no gas and air in Spain. They didn't ask, they just said they were going to give me an epidural for the pain. Admittedly, I had said on arrival I'd be open to an epidural, but anyway. I don't know if that's standard practice here or because they thought they might have to go to an emcs if they couldn't reach him and so would be better to have the epidural in place??
Anyway, I could still feel pressure so I pushed and they pulled and out he came. A bit bruised but ok. I had an episiostomy at the same time and aslo tore but didn't feel it. (Tore with DD this year in a totally natural birth and didn't feel it really, with everything else going on). Was stitched up very well and it healed very well.
There are things about labour that you think must be awful, that in the end turn out to be no big deal. I don't mean to sound flippant, or dismiss your fears...I was terrified of the idea of tearing and even more so of stitches. I couldn't see how stitches in your FANJO of all places wouldn't be totally horror film horrific, but it was really really fine. You might even find that none of this happens and you have a totally brilliant birth.
SOH That is so beautiful about meeting your child and it's true.

Thanks, everyone. working, what you say about grazing and sandpaper really makes sense, thank you.

So if I haven't had an epidural, they won't just attack me with forceps without pain relief - I'll have a spinal block? Thanks, that's also really reassuring.

I thought I was really well-informed about what might happen during the birth but think I actually have a lot of areas of total ignorance...

I had a Kiellands forceps delivery in theatre due to the position of DS. Whilst I found the experience emotionally traumatic (won't go into all that here) physically it was fine. I had a spinal block as was prepped for EMCS if the forceps failed so couldn't feel anything. Had an episiotomy which healed fine and DS had barely a mark on him. I remember the registrar explained that they would do a trial of forceps and I know I had to sign a load of stuff in a very wobbly signature so probably consented to them. So what I'm trying to say is, I have no regrets that I had forceps instead of EMCS, but perhaps you could have a chat to your MW and see if she can reassure you. Good luck with your birth!

There is pain relief for all options so you don't have to be scared. And as others have said focus on why you are doing all this - when baby arrives wow the real adventure begins.

yy v good analogy about the sandpaper.
Also second the thing about everything seeming fine and then all hell breaks loose and it's panic stations. Same thing happened to me as DS heartbeat plummeted. DH hadn't even got back from parking the car!

I had two midwives, one who was all for moving around, staying on my feet being active, etc and the other who found the fact that I wouldn't get on the bed and stay quiet very irritating. My BP was slightly raised so she wanted me lying down attached to the monitor. There was no way I could do that, even sitting for 30 seconds was too painful. So, she threatened everything under the sun - forceps, ventouse, episiotomy, despite the fact that all checks on DS indicated he was fine and labour was proceeding fast. I told her all her "suggestions" were out of the question and the other mw subtly backed me up (she was more junior). In the end I delivered a healthy baby with zero intervention and a tiny tear. Afterwards the nicer mw basically hinted that I'd done the right thing to stand up to the other midwife and reassured me that there had been no danger to DS during labour. I'm so glad that the gas and air made me care sufficiently little about what other people thought to make me so bolshy!

If they do suggest intervention make sure your partner knows to question them on why exactly they want to do it. Sometimes it's necessary but sometimes, as in my case, it totally isn't. I still don't understand why that midwife was so keen to intervene and it pisses me off to think that if I'd been more shy and retiring DS could have ended up having to deal with forceps and I would have had an episiotomy instead of a tiny tear.