HELP! Talk to me about your SECOND births with epidurals please (especially of bigger babies)

[SubOptiMum]

Hello.
I am in a muddle. Traumatic first birth. ELCS agreed due to secondary tokophobia but now I seem to be wobbling back to VB option. I am 34weeks and have to decide in next two weeks. My blog explains my head wobbles a bit better childbirthptsdandme.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/not-such-an-easy-decision-after-a-day-of-appointments/

But I would love to hear from women who have had epidurals with their seconds (ie. was it easier than firsts etc) and their experiences (positive or negative!) as an Epidural is a non negotiable part of my birth plan (and hospital are very supportive of that and know me and case very well so would have to be some incredible mishap for me not to get an epidural when needed).

Is pushing stage with epidural I am mostly worried about but there is no fucking way I am doing it without one end of. (DD I couldn't get out and was oxygen starved as a result :( )

Help me ponder!

I have EMCS first time as I was overdue and then had failed induction which ended in theatre as baby was in distress. Second time same story except ivdidnt want to be induced Agee first experience so went straight to ELCS which was so much calmer. Would have tried for a VB if I hadn't been so overdue....

Just for your consideration, ihad very difficult 1st birth, 2nd I went to hospital demanded an epidural they faffed around for ever ling story short never got one ds wad born op and 9lb2 it was absolutely fine, this time have opted for a hb as I think it stressed me more being in hospital and not getting what I wanted, was only there 4 hours. I actually don't know many people who had an epidural with their second.

Just to say without an epi the pushing stage was a doddle, such a relief to be at the end an the pain pretty much stopped, nothing like the first time where I had a ventouse and thought I was going to split in 2 even with an epidural.

All really helpful posts thankyou.

Issue is I am completely and utterly petrified about going into labour and getting triggered about my previous experience and it all going wrong again. The epidural has been guaranteed as a way of controlling my panic and fears and supporting me to try and have the birth I want. There is no fecking way I am even contemplating it without my guarenteed epidural option as I just dont think I would cope without it. But the flipside of that is yep I wont feel to push and the pushing stage might fuck up again and baby might end up in distress and its another traumatic birth.

That's kinda why I want to hear from women who have had epidurals with their seconds how easy they found it to push their babies out. After all the body has been primed to do it before so even with an epidural I'm hoping the pushing stage will be easier than last time (plus they aren't going to make me be on my back with my feet in stirrups this time and if at all possible we might try a supported squat, or on side.) the type of epidural this time is different they do it as a continuous infusion instead of top ups but also I can be allowed to manage my own pain relief via a top up in 15min bursts. I think this will help me feel more in control of the whole process and feel more confident in my abilities to do it.

Don't worry!!! I have had four epidurals. I am like you - it is non-negotiable. In fact, the last two I had were inductions and with DC4 I had the epidural sited before we even began (!) as I thought it was probably the safest way to do it.

You can push. You can stay upright. You can sit on a bouncy ball throughout labour and use gravity. You can let the epidural wear off a little towards the end.

Funnily my second birth was the one in which the epidural didn't work, but we only realised afterwards that it was dripping onto the floor, not into me! It was fast and furious, and yes I got the baby out (9lb 14oz) but it left me a little traumatised, which is why I have opted for less panicky inductions for subsequent births. Everyone is different. For me, it is important to stay in control and conserve energy.

Your body SHOULD know what it is doing a little better this time round and it should be easier to push the baby out. I'm sure it would be even easier without an epidural, but you have to balance everything.

Not sure this is any help, as I had an epidural with dd1, but I was told when to push and could also feel what was going on through pressure rather than pain. It was fairly stress free, and while there were some concerns on oxygen levels I had no worry of it hurting so just pushed as hard as I could and out she came. I avoided a cs by about 5 minutes. Although it may have been the sight of the forceps that re energised me!

With dd2 no time for anything and she was born 8lb9. However, and this is my point, it was as if my body knew precisely what to do. I could have been unconsious and that baby would still have come out. It was odd, but wonderful.

The contractions were such that I didn't even push really, my uterus pushed the baby out. I'm not sure that makes any sense at all, but I do find it hard to describe - evidently

OP i am in the same position as you. Had very traumatic first birth which ended up with forceps with no episiotomy and no pain relief. I am 37 weeks and petrified of the second birth. Consultant has agreed i should have early epidural due to my past experiences but like you i am worried that this will increase the chances of intervention, especially as i have gestational diabetes, the baby is very big and they will induce me if i get to 39 weeks. But, like you, the epidural is non-negotiable.

All i can tell you is what my mw and consultant have said, which is that you are very unlikely to need forceps with a second birth, even with an epidural. They said that when you are fully dilated and ready to push they leave you a bit longer to let the contractions do the hard work so that when you do oush, and in a calm and pain free way, it should only take a few pushses.

I have also thought about elcs but the recovery afterwards puts me off. At the moment i feel that as long as i am relatively pain free i can cope, and that even if it does end up being forceps again, i would have an episiotomy, which is still easier to recover from than an elcs. Thats my current thoughts anyway!

Also, a big baby is apparently much less likely to get distressed in labour.

I have another growth scan tomorrow then seeing consultant on tuesday to make a decision. I might have changed my mind about vb by then!

Agree that big babies are supposed to be easier to deliver. Midwife told me less room for hands and arms to get in the way, and more for the body to work against as well as more pressure on the cervix.

She said mums like small babies, doctors like big babies.

Also you cannot underestimate how less panicked you will be when not in pain.

Lots of luck

I had epidurals with both DCs. With DC1, labour wasn't progressing so had to have drip & epidural. Pushing stage fine, DC1 born after 20 mins of pushing. With DC2, all much easier and quicker - labour 3.5 hours from start to finish. When I got to hospital was 5-6cm dilated, by the time they got the epidural in and it started to work, was 9cm. When pushing, could feel the pressure of the contractions (although not the pain) to push with them and consultant told me when to push. Also was lying on my left side for the birth. DC2 born after about 15 mins of pushing with no tears - was small baby though, so came shooting out. Epidurals were wonderful for both. Good luck!

This thread is great - some fascinating responses and you lot are making me veer wildly between my ELCS and VB decision!

Mmmmcheese wanna do some handholding? Inbox me if so! :D

Will do sub! On phone at the moment so will do it when have laptop!

I had an epidural with both, DS was 7 10, DD was 8 lb - so not huge...

With DS, the epidural didn't work properly, so it was lower on one side (pain relief on one side isn't so good, lol) so I had a top up which made me completely numb from about my breasts down and I couldn't feel the contractions or the urge to push at all. The midwife told me when to push and when to stop, I couldn't even tell if I was pushing properly - the midwife said I was though, it took about 5
pushes to get him out.

With DD it worked fine, no pain but I could tell when I was having contractions, I definitely knew when her head engaged, but the contractions just pushed her out before I did anything - I'm not sure if that's because I was having really effective contractions or if it means I have a bucket lol

dunno if any of that helps

My second was pretty big. Over 11 lbs anyway. My first wasn't too traumatic, just long - induced Weds and born Fri...

Anyhow had my second without epidural and he only took 6 hours - was the largest but also the easiest of my three babies to give birth to.

I had an epidural with dd1, completely pain free labour but couldn't feel to push properly and she was delivered by ventouse.

I was determined to have an epidural with ds1 as the first birth had been so pain free. But, he arrived so quickly (less than two hours from first twinge to birth) that by the time I arrived at the hospital it was too late to have an epidural, no matter how much begging went on. However, in retrospect, I much preferred to feel the contractions and my body seemed to work better to deliver him. He was a relatively big baby (9lb 5oz) and I'm a tiny size 6/8.

I would never try and persuade someone to have or not have an epidural, but I would just say to try and keep an open mind as your baby might be on a rapid arrival path....!!!!

DS was 9lb 6.5oz. 30 hour labour - tried for a water birth but couldn't hack it with just g&a. Ended up with an epidural after having my waters broken to try to speed me up. No one realised he was back to back and I was in excruciating pain. I was still failing to progress and ds was in distress. Got to 8cms only before EMCS. Didn't want an epidural but was grateful for it in the end. Was more optimistic when having dd (18 months later) as was convinced that it would be quicker this time and did not have expectations of a perfect birth.
I got to 6 cms when the urge to push was so strong. MW recommended an epidural to stop the urge. I was very swollen and I am big anyway but it took over 2 hours for them to get it into me!! I was sitting on the edge of the bed, bent over as far as I could go and forcing my legs together to give them the best access I could for 2 hours ! ! !
They eventually had to get someone to come in especially to do it in the theatre (so DH and I were separated for 45 mins - him sitting alone in the delivery room not knowing if I would come back!!)
When it finally worked I was examined and had got to 10 cms but DD hadn't engaged (no bloody wonder, frankly, I was bent double probably squashing her).
I was given an hour to push her down but I was exhausted and now couldn't feel anything. I ended up with another EMCS. She was 8lb 8.5oz

I haven't asked to see my notes but I probably should because I still feel robbed of my only chance to give birth 'properly' (Don't flame me, I'm grateful for my CS's - me and my dc are alive because of it - but I ca't help the way I feel )

Sorry, not a very positive story but I think important to realise that second births are not always easier but they are likely to be very different.

I had epidural with both of mine. In both cases the midwives have cut it down just before the pushing stage so I could feel the contractions. Both babies born without any problems- I think about 20 minutes pushing with both.

Oh, and DC1 was a standard 7lbs something but DD was 4.35 kg-what's that in pounds? Almost 10?

Had an epidural with all three of my births.

First was very long drawn out affair ending in EMCS as baby (4kg, 41 weeks) wedged.
Second was still pretty long, but VBAC with ventouse (4.4kg baby, positioned badly hence ventouse, 41 weeks).
Third was best, straightforward birth with very quick second stage and no tears/episiotomy (3.5kg baby, 40 weeks).

Both 2nd and 3rd births v. positive. Actually I really enjoyed birth no.3, despite being terrified/convinced beforehand that my body didn't "do" birth.

And on the weight front, baby no.3 was the lightest of all, so don't take it for granted that subsequent babies will be bigger.

Hi, inductions both times, first was awful, second was extremely fast!! Had mild contractions for about an hour (walking around the corridors type of mild) then went from 4 cm to 10 cm in an hour. No time for any pain relief really, got into the hospital birthing pool so was on hands and knees for 10 minutes, waters broke in the pool as soon as I got in and DS2 shot out on the next push. He was 9lb 2 oz and I did have quite a lot of stitches but it was brilliant compared to the first time and I went home the same night. I was an absolute state going in for induction the second time round following the trauma of the first but one thing that the midwives and everyone kept saying is that every birth is so different. They were right. I hope it goes as smoothly for you, good luck!!

Woops, sorry, didn't read thread properly!! Didn't have an epidural the second time round obviously which is what you were asking about. Good luck again though!

Mmmmcheese you have mail.

Really helpful thoughts ladies- keep em coming. Hospital being incredibly supportive -feel properly looked after this time!

I was induced with DD and had the epidural pretty much straight after they started me on the oxytocin. Pre-labour, I'd been told that an epidural led to a cascade of intervention as you couldn't feel to push as you didn't know when you were having a contraction. What no one mentioned was that, whilst you can't (well, I couldn't) feel to push, the monitor will show when you're having a contraction so you just watch that, and, as the numbers begin to rise, you begin to push and you push & push & push until the numbers go down again. After about 20 mins of pushing, the MW was a bit concerned as DD didn't seem to have moved so she stuck her hand up and rested it on DD's head for the next contraction to see if I was pushing in the right way. She decided I was and then kept her hand there for the next 40 odd minutes as I could feel that and it gave me something to push against. Whilst it gave me something to push against, DD didn't actually seem to move so I ended up being taken to theatre where they managed to get DD out with forceps whilst I was being prepped for a c-section. DD's head circumference was 38.5cm and I think the chart stops at 38cm so there was general consensus afterwards that her getting stuck was due to head size rather than me not knowing when to push or pushing in the wrong way. So, IME, the epidural didn't impact on my ability to push.
One thing I would like to raise with you though is, unless you're induced and therefore the hospital manages the beginning of your labour, how do you know you'll end up with an epidural? Where I gave birth, I understood that, due to women with an epidural having to have one on one care throughout, they rarely had the resources to manage more than three women with an epidural at one so, if you were to turn up having gone into natural labour and three women had already had an epidural, how long would you have to wait before getting one? And surely if someone was in difficulties and was being taken to theatre for a crash section, that person would take the anaethetist rather than you? I feel that this is quite a negative thing to raise but am concerned that the hospital might be supporting your choice in theory but that the reality could be different.

I hope you have a better experience this time than you did last.