OH NO! I think I'm getting PND again - HERBAL remedies??

[expatinscotland]

I've started feeling very anxious and a touch paranoid about things I KNOW are very silly - like baby Roisin, nearly 3 weeks, falling ill w/a cold, etc.

Breastfeeding is going well, however

Any ideas on herbal remedies for PND I can use?

It's definitely not as bad as last time - by this stage last time I was extremely ill - but I can't seem to control my feelings of anxiety about the future and the growing hoplessness.

NO HV - our local one left and there's no replacement as of yet.

Grrr.

bump

Sorry Expat, i don't know of any herbal remedies for PND, but as a short term messure would it be worth giving rescue remedy a try as it can help with feelings of anxiousness.

It would definately be worth trying to get an appointment with your GP as soon as they are opened again in the new year.

Is there any clinics etc near you where you could register yourself with a HV if there isn't one attached to your surgery.

Sorry not much help, but I have at least bumped for you if nothing else

I think I'm going to give Boswall House a call again after the new year. They were a HUGE help last time. I feel like I was robbed of DD1's babyhood b/c of this monster. I was never depressed before falling pregnant w/DD1. I didn't even know what it was. It's a vile disease I wouldn't wish on anyone - well, save paedophiles, child/animal abusers and murderers.

I'm just now enjoying DD1 so much and she's 2.5.

I HATE feeling like this. It's so awful. For me, it's worse in the evenings/nights. I want to come out of my skin and become someone else.

agree with aimsmum... go and see your gp. you're prepared for it, you can spot the signs... that's a BIG help to you. if you get it early then i am sure you can resolve it much, much more easily

no advice on herbal rememdies though, sorry!

That's a good idea Expat.

As Sl says the most important thing is you are recognising it and acting on it which is a good thing!

expat - I don't know if this will be of much use to you, but I felt like that when dd was about 3 weeks (it was why i started smoking again). It may well not be depression again - mine didn't progress to pnd. It naturally went away after a couple of weeks.

My best advice would be to have hot baths, eat well and do anything that takes your mind off it (for me, it was talking for hours on the phone). probably a good idea to phone boswall house anyway though.

Can you tell if there is a difference between how you are feeling and the kind of fear/paranoia that is normal for a new mother? I ask because although I scored highly on the edinburgh test with dd1, my HV's didn't offer any help, so when dd2 came along I lied on the form and felt better for realising what they were expecting me to be feeling. That made me feel more in control. I don't know if any of that makes sense, but I told myself that feelings of anxiety over the future are actually quite sensible for someone who has brought a helpless person into the world. If your feelings stop you and your family living a normal life, then you will be able to get help, but if they are just part of your general duty to care for your children and anticipate their welfare needs, then you are going to be fine.

I know it sounds trivial, but the period between Christmas and New Year is gloomy for most people. Add sleeplessness, hormonal upheaval and physical birth trauma and you have a recipe for feeling down and scared. The evnings were my hardest time, too, I remember. When the babies were in bed and I had a minute to myself to think about the enormity of the responsibility I had.

try fish oil or flax oil, and evening primrose oil. both fine to take while BF.

a good prenatal multivitamin might help too.

St John's wort may help BUT I have no idea if it's OK with BF I'm afraid. I used Agnus Castus as it was difficult to tell where PND was ending and PMT beginning and it's been a huge help but I wasn't BF when I took it so I'd check it's OK with a herbalist.

Are you in Edinburgh? Is Boswell House the church of scotland place? They are great aren't they, I found baby massage at Palmerston Place really helpful - a lovely lady called Jenny ran it. Hope this is just a blip for you .

Thanks, ladies. I'm on a downward spiral here. I HATE the evenings. I'm hoping it'll pass, but I also have experience now w/this. It's like a shadow chasing me sometimes. At least, this time, I feel like I can be open about it.

I'm so glad to have found this place - sometimes it's so bad in the middle of the night and that's when you feel dead alone.

I feel a HUGE sense of responsibility. I am the sole support for all of us. And here my folks have made our flat so nice - put up shelves, rearranged the girls' room, etc. I should feel cozy, like this is home, and it is. But I get this nagging sense of 'what if?' 'what if?' and it just blossoms into full on monstrous anxiety and fear.

I haven't been taking care of myself. My appetite is next to nill for some reason. I've lost ALL the weight I gained w/DD2 at just 3 weeks postpartum. I go to eat and just don't want it.

Oh, I'm sorry. But you can head it off, you know. You will be OK. I hope it won't take too long.
No help about herbal stuff, I'm afraid. But counsellor/MW I spoke to gave me two bits of info which you probably know already. Avoid refined sugar altogether (hard at this time of year) to prevent blood sugar highs and lows. Eat little and often: oatcakes, wholemeal bread. Slow-release stuff.
Third tip, from a book about depression, is odd. But I found it helpful. Have cold (or as cold as you can bear) showers rather than hot baths. It sort of shocks you out of that awful numb feeling. And that can only be good.

poor you but well done for recognising the symptoms. I would think the GP would be the best bet for your first call.

When I was researching fish oils, I came across a fair bit of new research into how helpful they can be when it comes to depression so I would think no matter what, it might be worthwile (as gloworm said) trying to get a good fish oil supplement.

should say I wasn't researching fish oils in any medical way just had a closer look at their benefits before the kids and I started taking them

You have to make yourself eat. Forget about 'meals'. Just have 'sensible snacks'. Tiny things to get you through another few hours

Just in the short term, try a good evening primrose oil (for the hormones) and a mega combination of B vitamins. Also a multi-vit and minerals if you're not eating much.
Poor you - can you go to your gp?

Hi Expat
if you are feeling anxiety then no wonder you don't have any appetite. These feelings may well pass on their own but it would be good to see the gp anyway. In the meantime, can you try easy to eat foods like Weetabix or mash?
What happened last time you had pnd? Did you have medication?
I had awful AND so was given ad's for 3 months immediately after birth. Ds is now 19 mo and I was fine from 6 days post-birth .
I've recently been having panic attacks (nothing related to ds, just some personal past traumas), so can fully sympathise with the feelings you are having at the moment. It's no consolation when you're feeling anxious, but it does get better as I'm sure you know.
xx

1 hand type here. gp USELESS! the good female one left as she was on a locum.

i want to hole up and read books

Not sure if the NHS is organised differently in Scotland but you should at least have access to a HV even if your surgery doesn't have one at present.
What happened after dd1? Did you get the help you needed?

W/DD1, I was on all sorts of meds for 18 months - almost from the get go. I didn't BF her, though. But I was very, very ill.

Used to have a FAB HV, tho .

Never heard of Boswell House, but am glad you have a helpful point of contact of some sort. Agree about fish oils and eating. I know it's horrible when you have zero appetite. When I felt bad like that I found bread and cheese the easiest nutritious thing to eat. Peanut butter/beans on toast also basic and good (and you can just spoon peanut butter out of the jar!). I'm horrified that there is no HV to keep an eye on you, given your past history of PND.

There may also be midwives/HVs at nearest Surestart to you.

Best of luck.

The HV moved clinics and they've got a temp in. But the temp already had a holiday to Brazil booked 10 months before taking the assignment and she's off for 6 weeks.

expat-do you have NCT where you are,i think they saved my life.

Try Bach Remedy,hope you can muster up to eat-I was accused of being Anorexic when breast feeding dd,i found Bananas,Yoghurt and toast easy.

You are not alone

Oh, yes I remember just about being arsed to reach into the bread bin and rip a chunk of bread off the loaf between feeds. I drank pints of peach squash as well (funnily enough the taste makes me feel all nostalgic now). The dark days won't be helping you, either, but you sound as though you are acutely aware of what's happening, so I honestly think you'll be ok this time. I think you are understandably scared of repeating your last experience but there's no reason why it should necessarily happen again. maybe you're doing the emotional equivalent od treading gingerly on the ice after breaking your ankle last time IYSWIM.

Having MN to log on to at 2am is a godsend, it saved my sanity I'm sure of it.

Expat, I'm sorry you're feeling like this. I had severe PND with ds1 - can completely relate to what you say about being robbed of your eldest's babyhood - I was too Ds1 was also about 2/2.5 before I emerged on the other side.

I did get PND again with ds2 - but not as badly as with ds1. I denied it for as long as I could (ironic really as all the health professionals I dealt with in my pregnancy told me that a big plus would be that I would know if I had it again - and in reality I didn't). I told myself it was lack of sleep, baby blues, the washing machine packing in...and then when he was 8 weeks old I realised that I was no longer having any good days (or even good hours) and I went to my GP. I felt like a complete and utter failure - why couldn't I just have a baby and get on with it and cope like other people? But that's the PND talking - it's so hard to see the wood for the trees when you're in the middle of it.

You may not have PND again - it may just be the stress of a new baby, sleep deprivation, natural levels of anxiety. But I think those things can be good indicators that it is rearing its ugly head again. I was never as ill the second time round though - even though I did have some extremely dark days. I started on anti-d's as soon as I saw the GP (continued to breast-feed successfully) and they really helped me (again, had them with ds1 too). I never had that feeling of total despair with ds2 (close to it at times though!) - I knew I was ill, and that I would get better, and that there was a light at the end of the tunnel even if I couldn't see it. Having to look after ds1 helped me too - I was mostly going through the motions but I did manage to keep going. With ds1 I really was at the bottom of a very deep, dark pit - and I didn't think I was ever getting out; I thought my life was over and that having a baby had been a dreadful mistake. Often I wished I was dead. It was never that bad again with ds2 - I felt just as down but I was able to maintain just a fragment of objectivity about it: I will get better, it's the PND that is making me feel like this, I am not a terrible person.

I enjoyed most of ds2's babyhood - I don't look back on it with a sense of failure and dread as I do ds1's. I don't know anything about herbal remedies for PND - I don't know if you can take St.John's Wort while bf-ing (I don't think you can) but please go and see your GP. Can't believe you have no HV, that's so sh*t. Maybe you don't have PND again - I hope you don't and these feelings will lift. But you know it's a possibility and you also know you survived it once and, worse case scenario, you can again. Don't know if those ramblings helped - I hope so: it's the pits, I know, and it seems so unfair but we get through it somehow, one step at a time.

Oh my sweet - I'm so sorry this is your thread - I hoped it wasn't. Haven't read any of the posts except the first one but just wanted to send you hugs (not that they're much good, but have no suggestions to help ).

Really glad bfeeding's going so well - Roisin sounds fab too.