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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

Anyone ever hear of a brow delivery?

35 replies

christie1 · 28/12/2005 03:44

I had my baby last year and ended up with an emergency c-section. As I sit here with a sore and itchy scar, I can't help but feel it was unnecessary. The doctors said it was a brow delivery that the babies brow was stuck on the pubic bone and would not move even after they used the vacuum to try to pull her down. Any midwives out there know how common this is and was my cs necessary? I was too traumatized at the time to ask these questions but it does bug me from time to time that I felt pushed into this operation ( I had normal deliveries prior to this one).

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Auntybrandybutter · 28/12/2005 06:57

just looking it up but havent found anything. Its too late now anyway, so dont worry yourself about it!

geekgrrl · 28/12/2005 07:16

did they maybe mean a posterior position, where the baby's face is turned towards your pubic bone rather than the other way round? This is quite a difficult position. My ds (3rd baby) turned posterior at the end of the first stage, he was born at home so I was able to move freely and try different positions suggested by the midwife but it was still extremely difficult, and I had a long recovery 'down-below'; I didn't tear but there was a lot of temporary (and some long-term) nerve damage. Ds is 2 now and my pelvic floor is still knackered. Kids, ey?!

merryTissmas · 28/12/2005 07:31

if I recall, a brow presentation is where the baby is facing the correct way, i.e. not back to back, but the neck is extended, rather than flexed. The baby's face is the first bit down the birth canal, rather than the top of the head, and as the diameter of the head in this position is greater, the baby can get stuck. I couldn't comment on whether your section was necessary or not, but it doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Pruni · 28/12/2005 08:31

Message withdrawn

snafu · 28/12/2005 08:45

Tissy is right - a brow presentation is when the baby's head is badly flexed (i.e. not tucked in towards the chest) and therefore the presenting part is the widest diameter of the head. It's not common (I think about 1 in 2000 deliveries) but unfortunately it is extremely difficult to deliver babies in this position simply because the head will not fit properly through the pelvis.

In this situation (imo) a caesarean was a reasonable decision. WHO guidelines do state that a brow presentation should be delivered by caesarean (and not by ventouse, btw) I am in no way a fan of cs and think that a great many are unnecessary but probably not in your case. Maybe Mears will see this and can give you a better idea of how necessary it was, though.

How old is your baby now? I'd be more concerned that your scar is still 'sore and itchy' a year after the op...

harpsichordcarrier · 28/12/2005 08:46

it's like a face presentation and makes delivery very difficult indeed
if you have unresolved issues, then do you know if your hospital has a birth afterthoughts service? so you can go back and talk through your birth experience with a midwife? not the one who delivered you but someone who can gothrough your notes with you and answer any questions you have.
ring them up and ask. even if they don't have the service at present, you could suggest it. lots of hospitals do, and it is considered good practice.

snafu · 28/12/2005 08:47

Good point, harpsi

harpsichordcarrier · 28/12/2005 08:52

[do they do it at your hospital snafu?]

vickiyumyum · 28/12/2005 09:00

as snafu says brow presentation is the widest possible diameter of the babies head to present and is too wide to come through the pelvis, and so is not able to be delivereed vaginally, your only option as they said was a c/s. i am surprised that if they knew it was brow presentation that they would have used a ventouse as this could have caused very abd bruising to the face fo the baby, as the suction cup need to go on the hard head and not a soft face!

if you still feel upset about this, perhaps it would be worth contacting your hospital for a de-briefing, many women find it helpful to go through what happened at birth and it answers the questions that you didn't ask or weren't answered at the time of delivery.

vickiyumyum · 28/12/2005 09:00

LOL x posts harpsi!

Hulababy · 28/12/2005 09:01

Never heard of this phrase but the description sounds very much like the reason my DD wouldn't/couldn't be born, despite 50 hours of induction/lack of labour yet lots of pains. They said her neck was bent back and she was stuck. As I only got to 2/3cm they didn't get as far as trying ventouse type things anyway so can't comment on that.

I did have a cs in the end, which for me was a very positive and happy experience.

No idea if it was necessary for you, but really try not to let this spoil your memories of the day your baby was born.

ISawFrannyandZooeyKissingSanta · 28/12/2005 09:02

This is interesting. I had an OP birth and it did indeed all go haywire. They did not realise he was OP until he had actually been born! I asked to see my notes afterwards and they said I was not allowed .

Amazing how infantilising an experience giving birth can be...

harpsichordcarrier · 28/12/2005 09:03

not allowed to see your notes??
what nonsense and how very infuriating
do you still want to see them? because you can apply

snafu · 28/12/2005 09:08

'Not allowed' - grrr, midwives and docs should be fined every time they say that. It always amazes me how precious some midwives get about a woman's hand-held notes the second she's given birth.

I don't think my hosp does do an afterthoughts service, harpsi (they're probably afraid of how much time it would take up ) - maybe I'll suggest one!

harpsichordcarrier · 28/12/2005 09:11

fined or possibly zapped with a cattle prod
[snafu someone - poss pruni? - once thought I was you with a name change, IYSWIM. I can see the resemblance though of course no-one would want to change a fab name like snafu for a ludicrous one like mine]

snafu · 28/12/2005 09:17

harpischordcarrier is a great name - it conjures up a very specific image

Cattle prod much better idea.

Hope this has answered some of your questions, christie - have just noticed you posted at 3.44am!

ISawFrannyandZooeyKissingSanta · 28/12/2005 09:28

Yes, it was the very next morning and I knew full well it had not all gone as it should, but they wouldn't let me see them.

I have thought about applying to see the notes. I will think some more. Sorry for hijack, Christie - it sounds like you would benefit from talking it over with someone who is very knowledgeable about this.

Pruni · 28/12/2005 09:42

Message withdrawn

Kittypickle · 28/12/2005 10:36

I had this with DD and ended up with an emergency section as she was well and truly stuck. She was posterior so I had contractions for 4 days. I pushed for 3 hours but she wouldn't move and became distressed so we were whipped into theatre. It was only when I had DS nearly 5 years later that I found she had in fact turned the correct way but got stuck due to being in the position that you described. I found it very helpful to see my notes and find out what happened and wish I had done that sooner.

thecattleareALOHing · 28/12/2005 11:02

I always wanted a section for dd (2nd child) but ended up going into labour (long, horrible,upsetting story) - anyway, I KNEW something was really wrong. I had huge waves of agony, all in my back so the midwives (on the antenatal ward, they refused to admit me to the labour ward so no pain relief at all allowed) kept telling me I couldn't be in labour. And despite being in falling on the ground and writhing agony all night there was almost no progression at all. I am CERTAIN dd was in a really bad position and I was absolutely delighted and relieved to get my caesarian. I wanted a section anyway, but some babies are just not in a good position to be born and without a section will either die, be born horribly damaged, or leave you horribly damaged as they get out. I don't think any of those are good options.
btw I'd get that scar checked out. I had my last caesarian in Feb and it is all absolutely fine.

CaChristmasLista · 28/12/2005 11:10

With regards to seeing your notes, when I had DS2, I had a wonderful midwife who passed at least an hour sat with me while I was labouring in the huge hospital bath, going through my notes from DS1's delivery. I asked her loads of questions and she helped me to understand exactly what had gone on and why.

Obviously I was lucky she had the time to sit with me throughout my labour, I know this is not often the case.

Hope you get the answers you're looking for.

TuttiFrutti · 28/12/2005 12:44

You are entitled to see your notes under the Data Protection Act. Threaten to report them, to the Information Commissioner and their own Primary Care Trust.

muppety · 28/12/2005 19:18

I had a c-section in May and my scar is still red, raised and itchy. I think I just scar badly as its well healed and not infected.

The lady in the bed opposite me (wasn't you was it?!) had just had a section for brow presentation and her first 3 babies were all normal deliveries.

geogteach · 28/12/2005 19:28

DD (2nd child) was brow and was turned using ventose and then delivered (in theatre after they had made me sign papers for CS in case it didn't work). DS2 was also brow (chances of this i was assured were very low) he was delivered by emergency section, in the end it was much less traumatic than DD

mazzystar · 28/12/2005 19:36

I just wanted to echo alohas feelings here. I ended up with emergency cs because of brow presentation but felt so utterly calm and happy to know my baby was about to be born.

At my local hospital it was policy for a midwife to go through notes with you (if you wanted) at the point of doing your obs for discharge. Enormously helpful.

If you really still feel unhappy, it is def worth seeing your notes and if necessary using the hospitals Patient liaison service to make a comment. Might make it easier to let it go.

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