AIBU about medicalised birth, or are DH and my mother?

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This is a bit of an AIBU but I thought I might get more informed advice here in childbirth (if I get no responses I may move it to AIBU and brace myself for flaming!) Sorry in advance for the length.

I'm 11+4 and have recently had my booking in appointment. I met the midwife, who was lovely, and am lucky enough to be low risk and have the choice of two birth centres in my area. She even suggested I could give birth at home which I love the idea of, but don't think it would work where we live.

I felt so encouraged to be told that I was just "a healthy woman who is pregnant" and felt very supported by the midwife who had a very reassuring manner. It was all very much geared towards women-centred, midwife led care. She was honest and open to all the questions I asked her, and I felt encouraged when I left the appointment. At my next appointment I plan to ask her about things like skin-to-skin contact, delayed cord clamping etc, all the things I've been reading about on the internet, and hope she'll be very open to discussing those things too.

However, relating this to my (American) mother on Skype later that evening, she had a very negative reaction. She felt that I should want the medical professionals to feel I am supremely high risk, terrified of birth, etc so they will be more vigilant in watching out for problems and catch things earlier, and give me more care and attention during childbirth - a sort of "squeaky wheel" attitude, where if I whine and moan about every tiny thing they will be more willing to pay attention to me. She thinks that midwives will have a blase, grin and bear it attitude which could mean they discount my pain levels ("oh don't be such a crybaby, it's only childbirth!") She is badgering me to have regular private consultations with an obstetrician throughout, to make sure I have "proper care". I am worried an obstetrician will only see problems - but she said that's exactly what you want, someone to see problems and treat them before they cause any harm.

Separately, DH thinks all the research I'm doing into active birth, cord clamping, whether to accept the injection after birth to speed up placenta delivery etc could be counterproductive and will antagonise the people caring for me, and I should just do what I'm told rather than insist on anything. His argument is that they're the professionals not me, I wouldn't do research if I had open heart surgery and instruct the surgeon what to do, and I should do what I'm told by the midwife and/or doctors because they'll be doing what's best for me. I'm not sure I believe this since many of the stories I read sound like they are often doing what is best/most convenient/habitual for them, not for the mother and baby.

Admittedly my mother had 2 emergency c-sections so you can see why she thinks things will go wrong, and DH's parents are both medical professionals so he feels they should be trusted implicitly and that of course they would never just be doing what they're used to or what's most convenient.

Do either DH or my mother make any sense? AIBU to try to be as informed as possible and have the attitude that having a baby is not an illness to be treated?

"So at some point we will sit down and watch some natural births to counterbalance the drama-filled movie births."

I strongly recommend:

here

smile

I mean

yes, I looked at some of those videos, Spud.
scary sutff, but looked so much nicer than those births you see in One Born Every Minute

Thanks for all the links to natural births everyone! A great resource and very timely. Last night, we were lying in bed and my husband suddenly turns to me and says:

"you know when they cut the cord, does the other bit just get pulled out then"
"um...what do you mean the other bit"
"the other half of the cord, does it just fall out once the baby isn't attached anymore"
"well, it's attached to the placenta so you have to get the placenta out too"
"that comes out too then?"
"no, you have to deliver it - you have to keep going once the baby's born"
"you mean you're not done when the baby comes out??!!?!"

He genuinely thought that the umbilical cord might be attached to the wall of the womb "somehow" and when you tugged on the end the placenta would slide out like a tampon. He had NO IDEA that you have to go on to deliver the placenta. This from an oxbridge educated academic with multiple postgraduate degrees.

Anyway after I made merciless chortling fun of him he has now agreed to watch all the birth videos you lot have suggested with me this weekend, and to read pregnancy for men! I hope this is the beginning of his faith in his own knowledge being undermined!

wouldn't that be cool, though!
pull the cord and pop out comes the placenta.
that would save a lot of struggle and might mean less PPH.

Tyelperion, that made me laugh. I have heard of some men getting a complete shock in the delivery room. (Think: "ARGH you've pushed too hard and your liver's fallen out!!!!")

Watch "The Business of Being Born" - it is an eye opener to state of the USA maternity care.

YANBU. It is your body and you should plan the birth in the way that you want to.

However I can remember in my first pregnancy the midwife said the exact same thing to me and I can remember thinking "well in theory but who knows how things will pan out". As it turned out there were complications in late pregnancy and it ended up being a high risk pregnancy. I felt unprepared for this as I felt brainwashed by midwives and antenatal classes into thinking that I would have a natural delivery and the possibility of complications arising were not even discussed.

I've a copy of Birth Your Way going spare if you'd like it... PM me :)

YANBU about your hopes for your labour and I hope they work out but YABU if you think that by reading up on and mentally selecting a calm low risk, unmedicated birth you will get one. I too wondered about a home birth but thought I'd go for midwife led to find out how I coped with the pain for my first. I'm glad I did, the pain was fine my birth was not. FWIW I was a very healthy low risk newbie, cycled 10k a day til 7months, swam and did yoga weekly until the night I went into labour, and I mentally picked the 'ideal birth' but ended up in a high dependency unit after DS. Worst way to start life as a new mum is waking up at 4am, gasping for breath with your heart sounding like its about to stop, surrounded by machines including a heart monitor going bing, with your poor child undressed and just wrapped in a sheet in a cot net to you, not remembering how labour turned out and wondering where your husband is (they send them home at night). My initial mw was great, after a shift change I got one who broke my waters without consent, didn't believe me when I said I thought DS was stuck and I had no pushing urge, told me I wasn't doing it right, hauled me out of my birth pool and had me squatting, slamming myself off the bed to try and shift him, pushing lying sideways and looked utterly disappointed in me when I had to have a section after two hours of pushing. Turned out that just like doctors in white coats not all mws have an intuitive link or indeed much empathy at all to birthing mums, mine didn't realise DS was stuck sideways and in an unbirthable position in something called deep transverse arrest and didn't even pick up anything might be wrong after I went through the first 7cms with no drugs at all bar some cocodamol tablets but needed 6 cannisters of gas and air for the last three cms because of the unbearable feeling of his head grinding continually against my pelvis. Because of her botched management of my labour I ended up having a big bleed after an emcs and lost about three pints of blood. I too wanted a delayed cord clamp, but having eperienced what it's like to actually start fitting and haemmorrhaging and see the fear in your partners face, if I'm lucky enough to get my VBAC waterbirth with this DC in a mw led unit just down the corridor from those pesky consultants and their blood banks and high dependency units then I will happily have that injection. Haemmorhage is the leading cause of maternal mortality worldwide and I now realise it's my baby I'm bothered about not my placenta. Good for you for preparing for the best and knowing what you want, but remember there's an element of luck involved too, you simply can't control everything, so do think about how you want things managed if it does go off the script. Good luck and I hope things do stay on script for you!

but Poppet - yes, your birth was horrible, but I think it sounds more like you ended up having problems because you had too much intervention.
the midwife who popped your waters started it - it's supposed to speed up labour, but if you had no urge to push, then it's obvious that popping your waters was too early, and shouldn't have been done.
I bet that if she hadn't been your MW, and if that hadn't been done, then none of what happened afterwards would have happened either.

I'm sorry for what you went through :(

(not saying you wouldn't have needed the CS for the transverse arrest, but you wouldn't have had any other of the problems caused by her mismanagement, and it probably would have been a straightforward CS instead)

weblette - what a lovely offer, have PMed you

bemybebe - thanks for the rec - I will watch and then see if I can get my mother to watch with me when she comes over here next month. Could be really useful in opening her eyes to the differences between US and UK attitudes to birth.

Poppet45 thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience - I absolutely take your point that I should plan ahead but not set my heart on anything and not beat myself up if something goes differently than the way I planned. Quite a few commenters here have said the same and cautioned me to stay flexible and not feel guilty if birth isn't quite the way I expect.

I wondered that too nickelbabe, I always thought that by breaking my waters she took away DS's last chance to turn, but my mw for this pregnancy from an entirely different NHS trust said nope baby could still turn without waters. TBH I think the problem wasn't so much intervention, which was a symptom, it was that he never engaged and was wedged at the top of my pelvis sideways but noone noticed. So more a lack of not enough attention rather than too much.
I think that's the key thing Tyelperion, plan, plan, plan, but don't get too set and also too hubristic about it, especially when dealing with DH and DM so you don't have anything to beat yourself up about later.

well, that's a relief, anyway, knowing that nothing could have been deon to change the baby's position - it's just horrible that your MW was such a crap bitch, though. :(

OP, just for your info, I was speaking to my NHS MW the other day and she thinks that since I am 15mins drive from the hospital, I may actually have better hospital emergency response coming from home than someone birthing on their labour ward. This compound with the warning from the hospital staff to "be patient" as I am in the crowd of Sept mums-to-be, which is going to be very busy here sealed my decision to go for homebirth. At lease I will have true 1-2-1 care and should emergency arise, I am likely to be treated faster.

You already have lots of good advice on here so I will add something slightly less constructive but honest never the less. Whilst pregnant you have a lot of time to think about injections and clamping, not having pain relief, etc. When in labour you may find that these things are slightly less important. What you will want is a healthy baby and to get it out, and if that means a chilled out atmosphere and a lovely natural birth then great, but if it means beeping machines and doctors everywhere then that is good too.

There are some quite strong comments on here especially the one about being violated or abused which go a little far, non-one can force you down a medical intervention route but if I were you I would keep my options open and don't dismiss different birthing methods. I had not intention of having an epidural but I put on my notes that I would like the option, lucky I did as it ended up being a forceps delivery. Everyone's birth is different, even mums who have 2 or 3 children will tell you that each birth was different, my BF had no pain killer and little pain with her first but was screaming the walls down for an epidural during the second childs much faster and more painful labour. If you have a birthing centre that is linked to the hospital that sounds like a great place to labour with the perceived 'safety' that your DH is craving in the hospital nearby if needed. You might be the one worrying about the baby but he will be worried for the both of you so dont be too hard on him. Good luck and enjoy it goes so fast!!!

'cautioned me to stay flexible and not feel guilty if birth isn't quite the way I expect.'

Definatley agree with this, I was really quite upset that I ended up with a forceps birth and epidural for some time afterwards, felt like I failed. Now of course I can see what tosh it was, I have a wonderful healthy son and it sooooo doesn't matter.

I'm going to cry, getting fed up of losing posts.

Childbirth is a natural bodily function, you don't need to go into it expecting it not to work, just be flexible if it doesn't. Because it's a natural bodily function and not your body going wrong you have choices about how you do it, just like you do with anything else! Doctors and MWs in the UK are used to people having their own ideas of how they want to do it - come with four pages of birth plan and you may put backs up, but a one page summary of the important points won't upset anyone. You will find them a lot more flexible here than in the USA.

I posted a story this week that demonstrates this. I have an inverse T scar and was told it was an automatic section. I got a Doula, researched and decided I wanted a VBAC. I spoke to my consultant and one of the supervisor of midwives and they're willing for me to go with one as long as it's natural (no induction, augmentation or epidural and I must be on the monitor all times but they will let me have the wireless one and expect me to keep mobile). They told me the risks and how bad it could be but said ultimately it's my decision and they will support that.

A compromise with the injection is to wait until the cord has stopped pulsating, cut the cord and then have the injection.

Yes, legally here under the Mental Capacity Act, everyone has the right to make decisions about their care and should be supported to make those decisions, in critical situations those decisions need to be made very quickly so sometimes it is hard for professionals to a) make those decisions b) communicate those decisions. Childbirth is a very complex issue and all professionals will do the best they can for you given their knowledge, skills and experience and resources available to them. It's a very highly skilled job.

The best we can all do as mothers to be is plan, inform ourselves, prepare and be flexible and open to advice which we can decide to take if the options are there to take.

I had to have a crash section, they examined me at 6:45 and said they needed the baby out and at 7pm I was in theatre. I wasn't really given an option, it was pretty much a life or death situation if i had carried on labouring BUT I still had to have three consent forms explained and signed in that time because as ohnotanotherone said it was still my decision to make. There are very few times when consent, choice and decisions don't apply to childbirth.

I haven't read a lot of the comments because it seems you've received lots of great (and lengthy) advice but will add my 2 pence.

Based on your original post, ignore your mum (it must be highly medicalised in the US - incidently, it's similar in France, where my sister had to do battle not to be pushed into a completely medicalised birth "because that's what you do") but book yourself and your DH in an NCT or other local antenatal class, he doesn't sound very clued-in to the decisions you actually DO have to make, and there are a few! They don't recommend you make a birth plan for nothing!

Your midwife sounds great, and you sound like you are totally in the right frame of mind.
Good luck!

YANBU I am impressed you are doing so much research at 11wks took me to my ante-natal classes two weeks ago to learn about most of the stuff you are talking about and I am 35 weeks pregnant with first baby.
Some points for your "discussions" with DH
Labour is definitely not the same as heart surgery, with labour you are conscious , active and ideally doing a lot of the work.
Also it seems less likely you will be "told" to do anything Midwives especially will "ask" what you want to do.
Therefore you need to be able to make a range informed decisions or rely on your partner to be able to make them on your behalf. Like you I think it's best to know the options in advance so you are not having to absorb masses of information and consider things for the first time while in labour.

Worth taking DH to an antenatal class to understand the mindset better ?!

I'm British. Had my first child in the US and having second one here. Your mother just does not understand how things work in the UK on the NHS. You will not get the kind of individual attention she thinks you need if you pester the staff a lot on the NHS. I just went through an experience where the NHS consultant based on some isolated facts tried to discourage me from a HB while at the same time not noticing that basic bloodwork had not been done at previous visits, not that the previous consultant had a different view to him. All that will happen is that you will get funnelled through the system. If you want the type of care your Mom thinks is on offer here, you will have to go private.

If you haven't already get the Ricki Lake documentary The Business of Being Born, and Naomi Wolf's Misconceptions and anything by Ina May Gaskin.

Never mind the HB/hospital birth discussion - strikes me that one common regret among new mums is why they "ended up" having procedures, so the better informed you are, the better.. eg. my friend's fetus had an irregular heartbeat which resolved itself.. despite this, the mws insisted on continual monitoring during the birth which has been shown to increase unnecessary Csections because the monitors are so inaccurate. And the mws also induced her although she said she was already in labor, sent her husband away from the hospital in one of the worst snow storms, did not ring him when they accepted finally he was in labour. She got him on the mobile and managed to get him back just in time for delivery.