Skin to skin after ELCS

[scaryfairy28]

Been booked today for a ELCS following failed ECV. Hospital say no to skin to skin until back in observation can I argue it? Its really important to me.

Ask them why. I had an ELCS just over a month ago, and they let me have just a few seconds so that I was the first thing DS2 smelt, and then they had to wrap him up because it was really cold in the theatre - and it was.
Once he was wrapped, DH held him for about half an hour while I was sewn back together.

As soon as we got into observation then we had skin-to-skin - it really felt like the delay didn't matter and I was able to BF right away.

You probably can argue, but I would second what Alibaba said - "it really felt like the delay didn't matter."

I was worrying for ages about skin-to-skin; we couldn't have it because DS had to be wrapped up warm. But he was then held (by DH) right by my face, and we had skin-to-skin in recovery. I don't at all feel like we missed out, and we are most definitely very, very bonded - he is more bonded to me than to anyone else, and that seems to have happened very naturally. BF was easy, so don't worry about that - if there are going to be problems in that respect, then they won't be down to not having skin-to-skin immediately.

If you are worried about it then you must discuss it and argue your case, though.

I didn't get to hold my daughter until about 45 minutes after she was born, she was cuddled by her dad whilst they stitched me up.

I don't think it made a difference to her who cuddled her first, and I've had no problems with breastfeeding either.

I think it's easy to get over-anxious about skin to skin - it's nice, but not essential.

I second asking them why.

Would you be happy for DH to have skin-to-skin with the baby otherwise - I would imagine it would be to do with you still being on the operating table and undergoing surgery but that would be hospital policy rather than anything else.

NICE guidelines say:
1.5.3 Early skin-to-skin contact between the woman and her
baby should be encouraged and facilitated because it
improves maternal perceptions of the infant, mothering
skills, maternal behaviour, and breastfeeding outcomes,
and reduces infant crying

How long are they expecting it to take before you are back on observation? And the best way to warm someone up is through skin-to-skin contact, so it's an ideal way to keep baby warm.

I had an ELCS with my twins, 4 yrs ago. IIRC, they took them both to wrap them up, but DH had Twin 1 and I had Twin 2 whilst they stitched me up. DH then went with them into recovery, whilst they wheeled me back in, and I then had skin-to-skin with both as soon as I was there (weird but gorgeous photos of me with two teeny heads poking out of the top of the bed sheet) It didn't matter at all that it wasn't immediate, and I had no problems with BFing, other than the obvious issue that my milk didn't come in straight away because I had had an ELCS at 37.5 weeks.

Try not to worry about it.

i had my pre clerking today for my section on tuesday and they did say that i would meet my baby straight after he is out but that baby will be given to DH for skin to skin and that it would be about 45 mins to stitch me up and i would be in a better position to hold baby once in recovery. they also said baby would not be weighed or anything till i had been dealt with and baby would stay in my sight the whole time i was in theatre and recovery.
This was the same when i had DD 5 years ago via ELCS and i cannot remember it being an issue to me if im honest. DD breastfed in recovery straight away and the time in theatre flew by and certainly did not feel like 45 minutes at all!

They've told me baby will be taken straight into another room to be weighed measured etc. really not liking any of it. Making me wish I wasnt pregnant just now.

Surely they can weigh and measure baby afterwards?! Be firm - some mws get a bit set in their ways but it's your baby.

Thanks I'm seeing my community midwife tomorrow so will ask her too and I'll ask at pre op and again on day. The whole thing makes me feel so out of control.

No need for them to take the baby away surely, that seems weird.

I was able to have DS2 tucked into the bed they wheeled me out of theatre in and then we got stripped off the moment we were in recovery. He wasn't out of my sight from the moment he was born until then.

You have to be realistic about what is and isn't possible, but you should definitely talk things through with your CMW.

Before your section, you should have the opportunity to speak to the Dr who will perform the section, and also the aneasthetist (sp I know!). There will also be a midwife with you in theatre, and I clarified with mine during the operation what would happen afterwards.

Please don't get too upset about it though. I had none of this with DS1 - emergency section, I was off my head on drugs and have very hazy memories of his first hours. I breastfed him until he was 2 years old and we have the most amazing bond :)

I've had 2 ELCS. Both times baby has been given directly to me and stayed on my chest covered by a towel (cold in theatre!) whilst they put me back together. Neither of mine were ever taken to another room - all weighing etc was done in front of me. I would ask them why.

I had an ELCS with DS2 and will be having another in August with DC3. I too worried about what you have said but it was all actually fine.

After DS2 was born they very quickly checked him, wrapped him up in a towel and DH held him right next to me whilst I was stitched up. There was no room on my chest to have skin to skin for more than a minute, but I am quite short if that makes any difference??! He stayed with us the whole time. Went into recovery approx half an hour after DS2 was born, then I had skin to skin and he breastfed within an hour and continued to breastfeed fine until 9 months old when we stopped. He was weighed very quickly in the recovery room with us right next to him - he wasn't taken away at all - I would question that part.

Good luck, hope it is as lovely experience as my ELCS was.

I had v low BP whenn having my ELCS with dd and my dh had to hold her when in theatre - I really wasn't up to it. I held her as soon as we were back in recovery tho, and she crawled across me and latched on for her first bf all by herself :) :) so it doesn't nec matter if you have a VB or a CS wrt that. Good luck and I hope it goes well. DD wasn't weighed or washed or anything till we were back in recovery. PS I bf my dd for 2 years and my son (VBAC) for 3 years.

Actually that is a good point, I wasn't up to holding DS2 either - DH held him right next to my face. I was shaky, and my hand was very sore from the cannula.

I didn't have skin to skin but I did have DD put onto my chest, wrapped up, face close to mine, and there she stayed for the 45 minutes while I was sewn up. I would have preferred skin to skin as she was crying and there wasn't really anything I could do apart from stroke her little face - in retrospect perhaps she would have preferred having some skin to skin with DH! If I end up with another section I will push for skin to skin with baby covered in blankets on top. But when I got through to recovery we did skin to skin, first feed, and all was fine.

What they've said about taking your baby out of the room is ridiculous and totally unnecessary. Put your foot down - I know it's difficult - but she's your baby and they are absolutely not allowed to do anything to/with her without your or DP's consent. Even if they say it's hospital policy, that has no bearing on your legal rights as parents.

I second putting your foot down as it is clearly bothering you immensely, and that's not good - the out-of-control feeling is NOT what you want in the run up.

How bolshy do you feel comfortable with being? I would be saying that you wish to have skin-to-skin or the nearest thing to it in theatre, with the help of your DH if necessary - that you understand that the section may compromise the extent or amount of time you can do this for, BUT that you expect them to follow the NICE guidelines in this respect. Take the guidelines with you. Say that you will need a clinical reason why they are not intending to follow guidelines.

You could then follow this up with a very polite, 'Secondly, we will not consent to our child being taken out of the room to be weighed and measured, so need to know what you intend to put in place should you have a clinical need to weigh and measure straightaway?'

Sadly it is often the case that blanket 'policies' are applied because they're easier - but if a mother makes it VERY clear she'll kick up a fuss, what becomes easier is supporting her wishes (as long as there is no clinical issue of course).

Good advice on here. Hope you can be brave and get tough with them. Can I ask which hospital this is?

what do you think am I being too fussy? I'm happy to fight this one to the end as feel if the midwife had even touched me before 36 weeks it could have been prevented

? DP in theatre with me and baby at all times
? Clear communication regarding procedure
? Epidural instead of General anesthesia
? Catheter insertion after Epidural
? Screen lowered at baby?s birth
? Immediate skin-to-skin with me (in line with NICE Guidelines 1.5.3)
? Baby to stay with me at all times including during stitching and not to be removed from the room unless completely necessary
? If baby does not breathe spontaneously and has to be removed from room for resuscitation then DP is to go with her
? Baby to be weighed, measured and given Vitamin K in room with us even if it means waiting until recovery
? No formula or bottles except in exceptional circumstances
? Removal of catheter as soon as advisable / possible
? Walking about as soon as possible

Good list. How about altering the 'unless completely necessary' bits to 'without our clear consent, which we will be happy to give as long as the clinical necessity of such an action is fully explained to us'?

What they might tell you is 'necessary' seems to cover a lot of non-necessary things, so far! So I'd get 'clear consent required' in there.

Also bottles - 'excpetional circumstances' - it's a loophole - what you need to say, again, is 'without my clear and express consent' (which you would of course give if there was a real problem). Stops them later saying that they considered the fact that baby hadn't fed within the hour an 'exceptional circumstance'!

I don't think your list is too fussy. Basically, this is what you expect to happen unless there is a good reason why not. Personally, I would be smiles all the way and making it clear that you require solid reasons why something that is technically possible shouldn't happen.

FWIW I had an EMCS and didn't have the screen lowered, however I did hold the baby (awkwardly, practically under my chin!) for a bit before going into recovery. Fed straight away, no problems. Baby never out of sight. I'd say my experience was good, and can't see that these factors made it any more difficult for the surgeons to do their job.

If you really want to be beligerent assertive, tell theym you do not give permission for them to weigh and measure your DC. Its not mandatory (although lots of parents like to know). If the only reason they have for taking her to a different room is for that purpose then you do have the option of removing that purpose...

Be realistic. It's all find and dandy having a "wish" list but things are done the way they're done to protect the baby.

I had an EMCS and my sick baby was immediately rushed out of the room up in to SCBU. My boyfriend touched him and it was 2 hours before I was even able to see him. I didn't need to hold him, but I needed to be told he was alive and OK.

I'd have been quite the arsehole demanding "my rights for skin-to-skin" when he needed real help.

There could be a very genuine reason why the baby did not turn following the ECV and they may well wish to ascertain the situation immediately.

Be realistic. Some things are done to protect the baby - others because its hospital policy, yet more because its the way that particular MW/consultant is used to working. Refusing to allow a seriously ill baby to leave your sight such that their life is put in jeapordy would be taking a point ludicrously far - but is it really so unreasonable to want them to stay with you when there is absolutely no clinical need for them to be taken away?

Is a starting point of "I want my baby to stay with me" really so dangerous that scaryfairy should just accept that the hospital can do whatever they like without giving her preferences any consideration at all? Where on earth has anyone on this thread suggested that she demand her "rights for skin-to-skin" regardless of the condition of her DC when its born?

If there is a very genuine reason for taking the baby elsewhere then they should explain what it is. Weighing and measuring is not a very genuine reason.

lottie Actually I was so out of my effing tree that I thought there was sunlight poking through the window, shining in through the leaves on the tree outside the OR. My boyfriend reliably informs me that the surgery was in the basement of the hospital and there were no windows. Whatevah, in my birth experience there were!

Hi Scaryfairy

Sorry to hear the ECV didn't work - hope it wasn't too uncomfortable.

I would ask why its not available and explain how important it is to you - I can't understand why you wouldn't be able to. I had a C-section 7 weeks ago due to breech, and I was obviously very lucky that my hospital encourages skin-to-skin. I don't understand why hospitals have different policies on this... I had DD2 on my whilst they stitched me up, then was wheeled round to recovery with my DP whilst they moved me onto another bed and removed the epidural etc. DD2 needed some oxygen at first (was told this was common with c-sections), was cleaned up and then placed on me.

They also weighed DD2 in the recovery room, although I can't remember where they gave the vitamin K (I think the recovery room).

I would also say that it depends on the staff at the time, I had people say different things to me about what was acceptable so maybe some are more relaxed than others.

But at the end of the day, the most important thing is that you and baby are well so if you don't manage to get skin-to-skin immediately then focus on the baby, as I'm sure your partner will be able to hold him/her. I'm not sure if its just me, but it might not seem as important when the time comes - obviously I was lucky, but if they said I wasn't able to I don't think I would have cared half as much at the time as I would have done in the lead up to it.

When is it booked for? Hope all goes well.