Still obsessing about my birth :-(

[AngryGnome]

I had DS just over 5 months ago, birth was a bit grim but won't go into details on this thread. It wasn't nearly as bad as some women's experience, but it was bad enough to me.

Anyway, I am still constantly pre-occupied with what happened, and with complications since. I want to talk about it all the time, and I think I am driving people mad, especially the mums from my ante-natal group. We all swapped war stories in the early weeks, but they all seem to have "moved on" whereas I constantly bring it up. I try to talk to DH but he finds it hard to talk about and would rather leave it in the past. Friends without babies don't seem to understand - fair enough, I wouldn't have done either. I feel so alone with it - I feel as though no matter how many times I talk about it, no-one really understands. I have nightmares at least once a week remembering it. I had a debrief when in hospital, but it didn't seem to help.

Does anyone else feel like this? I don't think it is PND, I have now bonded well with DS, though it took some time and I don't feel depressed (i have experienced depression twice in my life). I just can't seem to stop thinking about it. My HV is lovely, but I don't really want her to know how I feel - I don't think she would believe me anyway, I am always very smiley and upbeat on the outside, and i ticked all the "right" answers on my PND questionnaire.

Will this ever go away? Any advice on how not to alienate friends and/or how not to bore them to tears talking about it would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

you sound similar to me, in fact i posted only two weeks ago on here and received such wonderful support, infact 2 have posted on your thread. i go over and over still now and my baby is 7 1/2months old. i was always upbeat and smiley with my nice hv but eventually i cracked and realised that i was far from okay. so, im finally discussing things with her and not 'boring' the local mothers groups which i stopped going to as i felt worse after than better. so, talk to your hv or see your doctor and things will begin to get better. i still have crap days, like yesterday, when i sat alone all day with my baby going over and over how crap i was at birth, feeding, mothering, everything! yet today i felt better. please let me know if you would like to chat as possibly things are similar between us except your birth sounds so so traumatic. lots of hugs xxx

Haven't read all the replies but definitely sounds like you are suffering from Birth Trauma which is basically PTSD after a birth. I was treated for PND for a long time, which never seemed quite right but it was my first baby what did I know? Then someone posted on the Facebook group I used a lot asking for people to fill in a study for some university, I clicked on it for something to do and cried through it! At the end was a page that said "if you've been affected by this study please click this link" and took you to some organisation about BT.

I was in a terrible way, I couldn't even say "when Dot was born" without bursting into tears. I talked about her birth constantly but at the same time it was upsetting me. When I was due with my second baby they talked to me about an ELCS and I cried, I couldn't discuss it because it was causing too much painful memories. I was given a GA for her birth and was really upset going under but when I woke up I was a different person. Different things work for different people to help get over it, I don't know what would have worked for me and wish something had before I got to the birth of my second daughter but no one ever officially diagnosed me.

Thank you again for all your messages. I got distracted by DS's bedtime last night, but didn't want you all to think I had disappeared and not read your posts.

Darth - whatever happened during your birth, it was not your fault. As much as we try and prepare ourselves for birth, and believe that we can have some control over our experience (wryly remembering writing my birth plan, that went out of the window pretty early on), whatever eventually happens cannot be your fault. Sometimes there is mismanagement of your labour by others, sometimes your body and your baby's body do the unexpected - it is not your fault.

breatheslowly - I share your feelings that I just want someone to say "yes, we did this badly". Like you, I wouldn't dream of taking legal action, or looking for compensation (the NHS is beleaguered enough at the moment) but I just want someone to acknowledge that my labour was poorly managed, and the actions of some of the midwives involved was not up to scratch. I don't know why I feel this, I seem to be getting increasingly fixated on this idea.

I will contact Sheila Kitzinger's organisation, it sounds as though they have really helped a lot of you.

Unmumsnetty hugs to you all xx

I didn't 'get over' ds1's shambolic arrival into the world until I had ds2 5 years 10 months later. Even though I then had a c section, I found it to be a very healing experience.

I didn't consider myself ready to have another child until ds1 was 3, and even then was profoundly grateful it took us so long to conceive ds2! I still spent large parts of my pregnancy stressing about what sort of birth I'd have, but a hypnotherapy cd, some prayer and my wonderful wonderful midwife all helped - and then the week before d-day we found he was breech, so I got my wish of not having to go through another crash section, even though it wasn't how I'd envisaged/wanted.

I had a very 'good 'birth with DD, but the lack of support from midwives and the lack of control I suffered at certain stages meant I ended up with PTSD and PND. I found it so painful to even think about birth, let alone talk about it and totally avoided any suggestions of another child. Even the thought of it made me feel sick, like my insides were twisting up inside me and I had regular flashbacks. Hospitals in particular were a key trigger and I developed a real fear of doctors etc with panic attacks etc.

When we moved house DH gently suggested trying for another baby and I agreed (after weeks of weeping and thinking) to three months of no contraception and we ended up with DS who was born 4 years and 3 months after DD. I had DS at home and it was a wonderful birth where I was in control and it really healed all of the scars from DD's birth - I no longer have panic attacks and can talk about birth etc with no problems. Everyone has noticed a real difference in me- its like a light has gone back on in my head but I feel so sad about those 'lost' four years during which I was miserable, angry, snappy and neurotic.

In retrospect I should have got help earlier- a doctor from my surgery suggested PTSD but I felt too embarrassed and scared to go back, after the community midwife who I talked to first ridiculed my concerns and essentially told me to get over it (ten days after the birth) as I had had a good birth and a healthy live baby - really wish I had complained about her now. Is there a sympathetic doctor you can speak to about this? I don't think this is something that goes away easily without help.

I had a horrible time with DS1, starting with induction, badly managed labour, and ending in an EMCS which I then healed soooo slowly from, got PND but it was diagnosed very late - basically had an awful year.

It wasn't until I was pregnant with DS2 and having antenatal appointments at the hospital (because of previous section and then gestational diabetes) that I got to speak to the actual Dr who had done my section and he looked through my previous notes to refresh his memory and said 'oh yes, I remember, there was no way he was coming out via the normal route'. I asked him to clarify, and he said that basically the position DS1 had got himself into, transverse head and shoulders but straight body so no-one realised, meant that he would never have been born vaginally once labour was started with him in that position.
I cannot tell you what a weight that took off me, I burst out sobbing all over the place in the middle of the hospital because I finally stopped blaming myself and looking for the reasons why things had happened as they did.

I had an elective with DS2, much better :)

Please go back and ask more questions, ask to speak to the Drs who did your section and get some answers.

I can honestly say that I've now been able to let go.

Turtles - I am so pleased you are expecting DC2! We 'spoke' ages ago on a one born every minute thread - under your previous name - at which point you weren't planning to have anymore DCs, so that is really lovely news, congratulations :)

It might be worth going over your notes with an IM. Whilst from a consultants POV it may have been just one of those things, from a midwife not involved with your care there may be many things that could have been done differently.
I have supported quite a few women who have had a 'cascade of intervention' similar to your own. The induction is the main intervention, as it forces labour, is more painful (so tends to lead to needing stronger pain relief) and forces you to be immobile. If your baby turned posterior or to another malpresentation this could have effected your ability to push (especially after an epidural).
There may have been things that could have been done to help you mobilise and dea with the pain (like one to one care) and you should have had Midwifery support.
(((Hugs)))
S x

Just a quick post as need to see to DD. Yes - I feel like this too. Had a traumatic VB 7 months ago and birth injuries are still being diagnosed. I feel that friends just don't get it and DH can only understand how I feel to a certain extent. At the end of the day it's not his body that is wrecked. I still feel a need to talk about it all the time - even though it is all-encompassing, it still feels so unreal and talking about it helps me to get my head around the enormity of it. But at the same time I am almost sick of hearing myself talk about it to my friends and sick of hearing and seeing their (now all too familiar) reactions. Mumsnet has really helped (thanks everyone!) and getting validation from the HCPs who are trying to get to the bottom of what's happened has also helped. Helped me to believe that what's happened is serious and is significant and that it is completely understandable that I am still so preoccupied with it and distressed.

5 months is no time at all if you have had a traumatic birth. It's no time physically - your body is still reeling and not yet healed. And it's certainly no time emotionally or psychologically. I echo people's suggestions to get some birth trauma counseling. And keep posting here - whether you need to talk next month, next year, or next decade, we will be here for you.
XXX

I read a thread like this and wonder how anyone can argue against Birth Trauma or Birth Rape. I don't get the "just be grateful" argument. When you are physically harmed from birth or mentally scarred it's not a choice to just forget about it.

We forget some times what our bodies go through, especially with a section, if we had something else that hard in hospital that went wrong - even if the outcome was positive in the end - we'd be "allowed" to be angry and to get help. Just because this is the birth of our precious children doesn't mean we should accept whatever is thrown at us or how bad we walk away feeling.

PTSD is usually the result of fearing for yours or the life of someone close to you. It's a surprise the way women are often spoken to that more of us aren't walking away with it.

AngryGnome, I'm not sure I'm adding anything to the debate, but I also had a traumatic birth with DD1 7 years ago. I remember obsessing about it, but DH was of the opinion 'You're OK, the baby's OK, can we please just get on and enjoy our family?' I do remember my older sister sending me two articles she'd read about birth trauma (em c-s under GA for me, after 14 hours of labour) and asking me if I was OK. I cried so hard when she sent them to me, it was as if she'd given me permission to acknowledge my feelings. Unfortunately, she lives too far away to be of the sort of help she wanted to be. However, it gave me the push I needed to go back to the birth counselling at my hospital, where a MW who was not involved in your care in any way went over your notes with you and discussed what happened. And that was the start of the healing for me.

I think in some ways it was easier for me, as I don't now feel that the care I received was terribly poor, just that I felt it all went out of control and I couldn't understand what was happening. The only thing I feel let down about was that my epidural stopped working, and nobody believed me (except DH, god love him) until they got me into theatre and discovered that, actually, I could feel what they were doing, hence the GA.

The independent MW and I only got part of the way through my notes the first time before I was crying so hard we couldn't continue. She then asked me to bring my DH with the next time, and also offered to bring in the anaesthetist who had administered my GA to talk me through what happened. In the event, I didn't need to see the anaesthetist - my DH reluctantly came long to the next meeting, and the MW gently suggested that part of my issue was that I felt I'd let DH down, and that the reason he wouldn't talk about it was because he was so disappointed in me. DH was appalled at this, and admitted that he didn't want to talk about it because it distressed him to remember - at which point, the MW suggested to him that perhaps it has been a bit more distressing for me and maybe he should get over himself a bit though she was a lot less direct than that!

I guess I just want to say that persisting with the counselling, whether through the Birth Trauma people or with appropriate staff at your hospital was, IME, so worth it. I wish you well - PM me if you want to talk some more, or keep posting here and we'll talk about it for as long as you need.

1944girl We're not bored of you! I remember you from lots of other threads (we keep posting on the same topics, guess we have something in common :) )but i'm sorry to hear that you are still having flashbacks this length of time on. But very glad you have found MN!

dd was almost 3 when dh and I decided to have a second child and that was only after meeting a consultant who agreed to c-section as I couldn't go through a traumatic birth with the terrible lack of support I had. 3 years on I think the trauma is reduced but I'm still angry as my birth could have been very different if it wasn't for an incompetant mw. I watch One Born Every Minute and cry as my birth wasn't like any of them. I don't think I'll every get over dd's birth and this pg is only because we wanted a sibling for dd (we even talked about adopting). This is my last pg as I won't put myself through it wall again.

It does get better but I did find I really needed dh to listen and give his opinions (especially as they backed up my own) and also he remembered things I didn't which helped piece it all together as my notes had big gaps.

I think it's a normal reaction tbh - don't be too hard on yourself and find someone to talk to. x

I agree with lots on here. I also have been and still am sometimes, very angry about my birth.
I sometimes feel like its one massive conspiracy, nobody dares say how bad it really was, certainly no midwife or sex ed teacher tells you that your womb may drop out of you, you may die, you may tear so bad you will be incontinent. No, I never remember any of that bieng raised, among the many other issues.

Many mothers dare not suggest they are angry or hurt about their labour, for fear of the reaction, that "you must not have bonded with your baby" or "are you not grateful".

I will never have another child.

After the birth of DD1 neary 5 years ago I felt exactly as many of you describe - how could I not have known how bad it would be? why had no one told me? how on earth could I do it again? had I really just had a daughter, who one day would have to go through this too? and yet I knew that I had, technically, had a 'good' birth, with no complications and good, supportive midwives. The difference I experienced with the birth of DD2 3 months ago is literally unbelievable even though I found the 2nd preganancy much harder and more tiring and physically was less fit I am sure. The main differences came from using hypnobirthing and perhaps even more so from reading these 2 books: Childbirth without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth / Grantly Dick-Read, Michel Odent &
Ina May's Guide to Childbirth / Ina May Gaskin (both recommended on MN and both available from amazon). My feelings after this birth could not be more different - and there was no tear, no physical signs of trauma. I really recommend these 2 books to anyone scared of a 2nd labour.

I remember going on and on about DD1's birth to everyone, my dad, my brothers, for about a year afterwards. I just couldn't get over how brutal childbirth was and yet we survived.

It took me 3 years to get the courage up to have another child, and while I wouldn't say it was easier, I definitely got over the shock much more quickly. Now my DD2 is 4 months old I actually enjoy looking back to her birth.

I don't think you can be prepared for how primal it is, but in my case, having done it once, I found it much easier to concentrate on the baby afterwards rather than her entry into the world!

DD1's birth wasn't particularly bad, just long and exhausting (36 hours without sleep). I fell asleep between contractions, but then had nightmares, only to be woken up by another awful contraction! Nothing like as bad as some here have experienced, but it still traumatised me so much that it was nearly 2 years before I could get my head around considering another child.

DD2's birth was such a dream in comparison. If we hadn't decided on 2 DC, I would have gone on to have number 3 almost immediately.

I'd agree that this is an issue that's vastly under-discussed. Birth is like nothing any of us have ever done before, and as natural as it might be, it's life- and health-threatening.

Sadly, with so little support in maternity care and/or mental health care, I won't hold my breath expecting things to change.

It might help if women were more open with each other, especially before the birth. But when you're pg with your first, it's scary enough without being told horror stories. And you always think that it won't happen to you....

I had a bit of a traumatic birth with DS and found very quickly "perfect" mothers just backing away. Luckily I was able to find a group that was set up for isolated, lonely, PND, PTSD mothers run by mothers that supported us until our DC were 3. We were all like minded, most of us had been through the same or similar experiences, some of us were further along and were able to support the newer mothers. It may be worthwhile to check out if you have anything like this in your area - just the relief of being able to talk about it out loud to people who would listen!