Teenage boys get anaesthetic for small op- why the bias against birth?.....

[kangers]

My friend told me about a teenager who had a VERY small nick in his foreskin to loosen it. He was allowed a general anaesthetic (at great expense to the NHS) and was under for less than 5 minutes (5+ staff involved, drugs, space etc). I think he has that right, but my friend pointed out that he would have had no pain with a local anaesthetic, and it seemed a little over the top. Plus the (male) surgeon was very sympathetic- far moe so we thought than many midwives/ anaesthetists can be to women giving birth. My friend and I compared this to the treatment of women who seem to have very few rights to pain relief in childbirth. We talked especially about the trouble getting epidurals in the night, and the numerous stitches we both endured with just gas and air. Not sure what the answer is, but is there sexism going on here or iis it me?

Wtf is "pin relief"? Meant "pain relief", obv...

Really interesting Zombie Plan. Why the cavernous gap in treatment of patients in these different areas????

zombie that's horrible and I really hope down to a difference in staff attitudes. Did you complain?

That's another problem with talking about 'pain relief' surrounding childbirth and labour - there's such a difference between what is appropriate/needed at each stage and the competencies needed to administer that. Whilst there's never a justification for intentionally witholding pain relief it's going to be easier to get a local than it is an epidural so not receiving a local is infinitely worse and almost certainly symptomatic of an attitude problem, but not receiving an epidural may not be.

Perhaps we should be considering the issue in terms of rights to pain relief in the different stages of labour, delivery and post-partum care?

BTW I don't hope that it's a difference in staff attitudes generally - I meant I hope it was just the 2 individuals who were providing care in each case, in that one was nice and one really wasn't.

Ridiculous comparision.
Thats it, no general anaesthesia for anyone of male gender!

Reallytired says "With childbirth pain relief can cause a casade of intervention. From a medical point of view it is better to avoid an epidural if you can. It lowers the risk of needing forceps, c section, if you don't have a c section if you can manage without an epidural. I think that there needs to be research to find ways of reducing the cascade of intervention with the mother have decent pain relief."

It is not true that an epidural increases the risk of forceps or c section. Exhaustive research shows there is no increase of CS after epidural. The correlation between the use of forceps and epidurals is just that - a correlation, not a causative link, because there is a higher chance that an epidural will be given when the labour is already long and difficult, and long and difficult labours are more likely to end up with forceps. In countries where epidurals are more widely available, and/or are given at an earlier stage in labour (eg at 2 cm rather than 4+ as in the UK), there is in fact a decrease in the use of forceps.

I don't have views over whether the boy should or should not have been given a GA, but I agree with the OP that getting adequate pain relief in labour is an issue in the UK.

It's a daft comparison.

Having a baby involves two human lives for a start, and many women are not prepared to take the additional risks associated with interventions.

"There is a higher chance that an epidural will be given when the labour is already long and difficult, and long and difficult labours are more likely to end up with forceps" - but this all hinges on the definition of 'long and difficult' doesn't it? And you need to factor in, that a woman who feels safe and supported, will respond to the pain she experiences differently to a woman who is perhaps in a busy, impersonal hospital, with staff she doesn't know coming in and out.

Many MLUs don't have the option of epidural at all. Does it necessarily follow that labours are 'short and easy' (ie opposite of 'long and difficult')? I don't think so! My midwife told me when I had dc1 at the MLU that had I been in hospital, I would not have been encouraged for so long without pain relief, that the doctors would have started fussing about a 'long labour' and that it could well have ended with intervention.

I wasn't offered any pain relief at all with my fist child - an induction which ended with an emergency section.

I agree with the posts by mrstittlemouse.

They have also found that children are often not given enough pain relief in hospital. For a variety of reasons. Some of them probably tie in with the reasons that labouring/birthing women are often not provided with adequate pain relief.

Well I got pain relief for the section obv! The first pain relief I was given was when the spinal block took effect in the operating theatre. It was the most wonderful thing ever.

coccyx see MrsTittleMouse and nannyl we are not begrudging the teenager the GA, just comapring the sensitivity with which he was treated to the insensitivity with which many labouring women, and women who have given birth are treated.
Unhelpful comment.

my experience is not birth related but might still be relevant.

i had to have a biopsy done on my inner and outer labia. i was very scared but wasn't offered a GA and tbh i don't think i would have got one if i did ask.

i wasn't given any numbing cream/spray before the local was injected, which really, really hurt.

i could feel the gyneacologist snipping my skin off and i told them so but all they did was squeeze my hand and say 'won't be long now'

i bet if this had been a man having his mighty staff of justice operated on he would have had more pain relief at the first squeal.

Loving 'mighty staff of justice' !!
With the teenager who had the GA- my friend was present at the op and it sounded literally like a little snip with scissor/scalpel.
Your experience sounds awful, but not being medically qualified I have to say maybe it was a time issue- a biopsy for a reason- possibly life-threatening? If so they don't want you to wait for a slot.
But removing being reasonable, there's part of me that says Male Surgeon/Doctor- "of course he needs a GA, but she will be fine". Am I being unreasonable.
Very interesting Bamboobutton.

no, it wasn't life threatening, it was just find out what was causing the unbearable itching. still haven't got an answer and have just been fobbed off with a steroid cream.

don't think there was any time issue, it was a small local hospital and i was the last one being seen out of 2 other women.

i would've happily had a spinal block

Stop being silly OP there is no comparison

so bamboo just shows different standards then. Hohum.

pinky think you may have missed the point.

I think mw's discourage pain relief on some occasions because it causes more trouble than it solves in many cases. With an epi you often can't feel the contractions for example, and don't recognise the urge to push. The timing of some kinds of pain relief is critical too - it's no good having an epi too late. With a lot of women it's transition that is the most painful part, and mw's know that very soon afterwards you will be pushing and some kinds of pain relief won't take effect in time. Also the chance of needing an instrumental delivery are higher with an epi. And for lots of women there is a (totally unjustified IMO) bit of a stigma about not giving birth with minimal pain relief, so maybe mw's try to avoid it for that reason.

On the other hand, many units are so busy that mw's don't have time to administer pain relief, or the anaesthetists are too busy in theatre etc. I didn't get any pain relief at all until I was 8cm dilated (and then I only got g&a) because there were no mw's who could come to me as the unit was so busy. And that made my birth experience very negative.

I think that there are 2 separate issues here. Women in labour who need, ask for and are denied pain relief, which is a terrible thing; and separately the idea that all women should have heavy duty pain relief as a matter of course.

Not all women want or need that level of pain relief, many want none, or to labour in water or whatever, and if they are happy with that then that is best for them and their child. This isn't necessarily anything to do with culture/bravado/natural birth trends either before anyone jumps on that. Some women are simply comfortable enough without. I preferred to labour without pain relief as much as I could, but I also refused morphine when I was in hospital with appendicitis, I preferred a clear head to a lack of pain.

A woman who is in pain, frightened and having a difficult labour needs to be treated with sympathy and offered whatever help or relief she wants/needs. Either way it should be her informed choice.

I remember having stiches after my first time giving birth. someone jabbed at me with a needle with some anaethsetic in and my legs were in stirrups. i screamed the place down and thought if it was a man he would have been given a general.

My DH said he didn't want me to have anymore but i did and tore but said no to anymore stiches. horrendous.

Blimey! Poor lad So you'd rather he suffered pain in a sensitive area because some women don't get the pain releif they want in labour?

Ormirian What motivates you to purposefully misinterperate/ misunderstand OP ? or are you stupid ?

I must be thick then onedge , because it seems clear to me that the resentment comes as much from the fact that a male teenager was given pain releif as much as from the fact that women sometimes don't. Otherwise what was the point of the thread?

I was cut and then stitched after my epidural had worn off. they later claimed that they had given me a local but feck knows where the stuck it because i felt every single stitch.

I do think that childbirth is fare less complicated if mum is awake and lucid which rules out aneasthetics to a large part though.

You must be, its not about the boy.