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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Does CS mean you haven't really given birth?

59 replies

chargeahead · 22/03/2011 15:00

My sister gave birth to a beautiful baby boy last week by CS. She later told me that her husband said he didn't believe that she had actually given birth to their son. She is understandably quite upset about it, but I don't know what to say to her (apart from the fact that I think he's wrong/doesn't understand).

Surely he's being very unfair considering she's been through pregnancy and produced my gorgeous little nephew? It feels like he hasn't given her any credit for the birth.

I really want to say the right thing and help her ignore what was probably a throw away comment. What would you say in my position? All advice welcome.

OP posts:
buttonmoon78 · 24/03/2011 07:11

Of course. The only way you can give birth is to spend hours being in agony with contractions, ideally tearing lots and hobbling about for days with sore, swollen lady bits. Hmm What a wanker.

I have total respect for people who, having had a caesarian, feel it's not 'giving' birth or who won't describe it in those terms. That is how you feel and your choice. But I guess you would still be very Angry with anyone who said you had taken the 'easy' option by having a section?

I hate it when people go on about other's birth experiences. It's nothing to do with them. I have no right to say that my birth experience was in any way better or that I did it 'properly' or anything like that.

Your poor sister needs to hear that she has a beautiful baby who was born in the best way for him and her. She has every bit as much right to be pampered and looked after now as anyone who has gone through a long labour and vaginal delivery. And her husband needs a thick ear.

Of course, I'm guessing that his comment was probably throw away and not intended to hurt her. Men are simple creatures and say what they think when they say it. Tact and diplomacy are beyond them, for the most part Grin

Congratulations on being an aunt and to your sister on producing (in whatever way) a lovely, healthy baby. Which of course is the most important thing, however it gets out.

drivingmisscrazy · 24/03/2011 07:14

just to clarify - I didn't mean to suggest in any way that women who do not carry to term are any the less pregnant, maternal or anything else. Realised that it could cause hurt/offence when I read it back. Sorry.

QTPie · 24/03/2011 07:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 24/03/2011 08:43

40 weeks? Don't I wish! I was 31 and 35 weeks and been told this one will be too. They said I only went to 35 weeks because baby had IUGR so my body was fooled into thinking she wasn't "term" and kept her in longer.

I had two crash sections with GA, my body totally stuffed up, it really is broke it's not me saying it. I'm injecting every day to stop me going any sooner and keep baby alive, I'm currently having fortnightly scans which will go to three a week probably after this week's appointment. For me it's all part of the stuffed up package.

As buttonmoon said I'd argue with anyone who told me or another woman they didn't give birth as we have a right to label our experiences as we see fit. I know someone who says that children aren't even born if mum had a section HmmConfused

Driving, don't worry I didn't even read that in your post Smile

ziva · 24/03/2011 08:48

mercibucket with all due respect it sounds as if you have not made peace with the fact that you had a cs.
i definatly feel like i gave birth.i nourished my baby for 9mths (or for dd2 8mths).my body gave itself completly to supporting this new life.this support continued until they were ready to come.the point where they became independant of me was the point where i gave birth.it dosent matter if it was vaginally or from a surgeons scalpel,this wonderful thing your body has done should never be undermined by silly thoughtless comments.

kreecherlivesupstairs · 24/03/2011 09:09

If I didn't give birth to DD, how did she get here. I do remember going into an operating theatre, arguing with the anaesthetist and waking up 9 hours later to find DD (and a grinning DH). Someone else must have taken over my body in those missing hours.
OP, your BiL is a twunt.

jcscot · 24/03/2011 09:21

I've had three elective sections and I defy anyone to say I have not given birth!

After my last child was born, I was dropping my eldest at nursery and the staff were cooing over the baby (as you do). One of them then said loudly, "Did you give birth to her yourself?". I knew that she was getting at the whole section/labour thing but I simply refused to answer the question directly by saying "Not really - she was marked down to half price at M&S because she was so small so I just picked her up". She laughed and then said "No, I meant..." at which point I interrupted her saying that I knew exactly what I meant and that I had no intention of discussing her birth - natural or otherwise - with someone I barely knew.

So, all you say to your sister is that she did give birth - she conceived the child, carried the child and it exited her body. QED, she gave birth and she's got the bloody big scar on her abdomen to prove it. She has every right to feel proud that she came through the whole thing and they are both healthy and well. Sections are only performed (despite the media wringing of hands) for good reasons and she should consider telling her husband that perhaps he'd be facing a very different outcome if she hadn't had a section.

Original poster
chargeahead · 24/03/2011 09:35

I'm interested in understanding why some of you think giving birth comes down to purely pushing the baby out? Surely that's a small part of producing a baby. If a woman says she hasn't given birth because she hasn't had a vaginal birth, I think she is selling herself short.

Doesn't giving birth mean to produce a new life? If so, all pregnant women who've had a baby have given birth, regardless of the way the baby came out.

I think my sister feels that her DH has questioned her rite of passage as a woman to give birth to her child. Sad

OP posts:
Shellfish · 24/03/2011 09:46

I had an emergency c section with my first having been in labour for a day before - having had the experience of both the labour and the pain after the c section, i would definitely opt for natural delivery as looking after a little one (and more) when you are sleep deprived, in pain, can't lift or walk far is worse I think

theresapotatoundermysink · 24/03/2011 09:47

'I'd argue with anyone who told me or another woman they didn't give birth as we have a right to label our experiences as we see fit'

You've hit the nail on the head.

Original poster
chargeahead · 24/03/2011 09:51

Meant to say that our mum had her by CS, and none of us have ever considered that my mum didn't give birth to her.

I don't think my mum 'over-thought' the whole birthing process and never distinguished between her vaginal and cs births. Maybe that's why we all grew up thinking that CS aren't a bad way to have a baby - just one of the ways women do it.

OP posts:
Maryz · 24/03/2011 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 24/03/2011 10:02

oooo this one makes me cross - is there a baby there? then it's been born....

It's about the most disrespectful thing anyone can say to anyone who's given birth.

(littlemad was born by emcs nearly 5 years ago and the moment where my ex MIL said to me, 'dont worry, we'll keep it quiet that you had to have an operation and couldn't 'manage' ' an hour after I was out of recovery remains one of the most damaging and upsettingthings anyone has every said to me (and she's competing with her son who threatened to disappear with littlemad if I didn't learn to behave properly....)

PureBloodMuggle · 24/03/2011 10:04

Here's a thought, get a scapel, slice through several layers of his abdomen, then get him to wake up every few hours and tend to a very small human being, whilst trying to recover from that. Then ask him if he feels like he's achieved anything.*

I feel a touch weirded out that it's important to a man the method in which his wife actually brought his child into the world see that physically men have very little to do with birth. Their contribution is support. Maybe he should try that.

*don't actually do this, I have a feeling there might be a law against it

chrisrobin · 24/03/2011 10:21

The morning after my first emergency section the midwife told me that my son had been delivered not born as he hadn't passed through the birth canal. I hadn't 'given birth' therefore he could not have been 'born'. She even wrote on all the paperwork 'date/ time of delivery' rather than date/time of birth. I was already distraught because of the circumstances surrounding the EMCS, I really believed her and it screwed with me for ages (PND).

It was only after I had my second EMCS when I said it to a different midwife and she told me it was utter nonsense that I lost the 'I'm not a proper mummy, I haven't given birth' feeling.

I fel so sorry for your sister, OP, I hope her DH realises how horrid he is being.

bemybebe · 24/03/2011 10:55

"She even wrote on all the paperwork 'date/ time of delivery' rather than date/time of birth."

What a viper! Shock What was the point besides just to hurt??

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 24/03/2011 11:21

chrisrobin - how shitty was that of her??????

Shock
chrisrobin · 24/03/2011 11:28

I know, just her nasty ways I suppose.

It was very hurtful and it affected me badly, I insisted on trying a VBAC with my 2nd despite the trouble I had with my 1st- when they told me I had to have another EMCS 10 hours into that labour I was beside myself and sobbed all the way to theatre.

PureBloodMuggle · 24/03/2011 11:32

what an utter viper (good word for her bemybebe)

There's one midwife that shouldn't be in the job they make a massive difference to your mental health depending on how they treat you midwives. I'm very glad you met a good on for your second.

I had a super fabulous midwife on my second (horrific birth experience) and all the nurses I had care for me after were just amazing, whilst physically it took a while to mend mentally I cope very well. There was a bit a a beetch in the IC where DS2 was but there was a lovely dr who made up for her (and told her off for her comments).

OP your sisters DH needs to know who damaging his stupid comment is.

snorkie · 24/03/2011 11:56

Is he planning not to celebrate any of his ds's birthdays then? If anyone asks him when/where his son was born will he say, 'Oh he wasn't born'?

He's being an insensitive git - can you speak to him, point out how hurtful he's been and get him to apologise?

ziva · 24/03/2011 12:44

purebloodmuggle i doubt any judge would convict her lol.

Secondtimelucky · 24/03/2011 12:56

Goodness, that's practically Shakespearean. Isn't it Macbeth who thinks he can't be killed because 'no man born of a woman' can kill him and Macduff was born by c-section so he beheads him. The semantic distinctions don't work out too well for him, do they?

I can relate to the feeling some posters have mentioned that you haven't 'given birth'. I have felt a bit like that about DD's birth (forceps). That I didn't 'give birth' to her, she 'was born'. But that's about personal feelings about the labour and birth. If some other bugger dared to suggest I'd not given birth they would get a right mouthful (possibly with a reference to pelvic floors and stiches, if I was feeling particularly graphic).

If you have a good relationship with your BIL, I'd have a tactful word with him about this. This type of thing can fester, and if she feels that her experience is being invalidated (regardless of how she feels about the section itself) she may be at increased risk of either post natal depression or not feeling confident going into the birth of any subsequent children. Although DH is massively supportive, I have only really worked through many of my issues with DD's birth with my lovely doula for DC2 (due in May, eek, have prepared nothing). If you don't have the kind of relationship where you can talk to him, can you encourage your sister to talk to her husband directly?

HisWife · 24/03/2011 13:01

It's a cesarian birth! That's all.

It's a bit like saying your flat isn't a home because it isn't a house. It's just a different way of achieving the same outcome, but it is still the same outcome. A child is born. You have therefore given birth.

WidowWadman · 24/03/2011 20:30

I would have complained about that midwife. What a nasty way of treating a vulnerable patient.

tiggersreturn · 24/03/2011 22:13

I think the correct response is "and what did you do?!?!?"

What an insensitive twat! (Speaking as someone who had an emcs and no one ever said anything like that to me other than thank god you and ds are well).