Privatisation of health service, what do you say?

[ray8]

Few days back there was a documentary named Dispatches on Channel 4 about NHS?s poor services.. i wasn?t socked to know that they give such a bad treatment to the poor elderly people who are on their death beds.

They give the same bad treatment to most of the mums who deliver their babies at NHS, they ruin the start of motherhood. Its sad that they give such a hard time when someone comes in or goes out of this world. There are lots of birth stories which shows their rude and cruel behaviour, unfortunately i was one of them and i will never forget the treatment they gave to me after putting my baby?s and my life at risk. I have learnt a lesson that i will go to private birth centre if i will have a second child.

Anyways i wanted to say that most of the NHS staff treats the poor patients with disrespect and inhumanity whereas in this kind of profession we expect some kindness and humanity, well if they are not happy with their job nobody is forcing them to continue, they cannot justify their cruel behaviour by saying we are short of staff!

If we google we can see that every now and then there is a horrifying news about NHS poor services but its forgotten after few days and again there is some other news. This is the story of a well developed country which unfortunately is not any different than any underdeveloped country.

I was wondering why are we tolerating their bad attitude, as if they are doing any obligation on us! The govt is collecting enough money as tax and national income so why don?t they manage it properly. Are we paying them our money to give us such a scrap services. With that money we can very well buy a good private health policy and get a good service. Anyways the taxpayers are not the ones who get the benefits! and there was a news in BBC that the govt. wants people to start saving for their retirement so what are they going to do with our money? If they cant manage it then why don?t they just privatise everything where we can get a choice and better services within resonable prices in a competitive market. What do you say?

Because privatisation of the health service would be a disaster and result in unfair distribution of health care, as happens in the US.

Sorry that you experienced bad treatment, but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder.

I think it is a sweeping generalisation to say that "most of the NHS treats patients with disrespect and inhumanity" Where exactly is your evidence of this? Don't you realise that a few horror stories make it to the press, but the millions of good news stories or examples of their kindness, dedication and going the extra mile do not?

yes far better to have a system that prices out the poor, that means they have to choose between eating and treating themselves. Not everyone can afford private health insurance, as has been witnessed in the US. What would these people do?

The NHS has its failings but the benefits outweigh them enormously. You do know you can pay for private care already, right? Nothing stopping you from joining BUPA etc.

'most of nhs staff treat patients with distespect and inhumanity'!!!

I think you will fimd that most nhs staff treat their patients as if they were their own family, and where i work i only see excellent care by my colleagues, and i have worked in other areas that excel in patient care.

Im sorry you had a bad experience, i also had a traumatic birth and am taking legal action aginst the same trust that employs me, but making sweeping statements like that is neither truthful or helpful. And in fact is very isrespectful o those of us who work hard looking after patients

hey are you guys nhs staff or their relatives or maybe ones who gets benifits from the public money? people like us pay a big proportion of our hard earned money as tax and ni so that the socalled poor can enjoy govt benifits!

What, people don't agree with you so they must be NHS staff or unemployed?

FWIW I don't agree with the privatisation of the Health Service. The number of staff who have treated me with ' disrespect and inhumanity' is none, throughout my stay following DD's birth last year and also during a stay for an operation the year before.

For every story about rude or unhelpful HCPs, there are lots of untold stories about fantastic experiences.

Did you actually read my post?

No I am not NHS staff or a relative of anyone who works for them. I am appalled by your offensive statements about the NHS and also by your latest comment "so that the so called poor can enjoy govt benefits". Are you really very ignorant?

As someone else has said, why don't you just go private if you don't like it.

I dont have any intensions to offend anyone here and i do agree that there should be some good people out there at nhs but only some are lucky enough to meet them, and unfortunately there are a lots of people who suffer from bad experiences but not all of them file a complaint... i should have seen at least twelve midwifes during my stay but non of them were helpful, forget about being helpful they were horrible, so in my experience the ratio is 12 is to zero. Even my friends and other mums i meet up have the same stories so its my personal experience and the experience of the ladies i know. I am talking about London it might be different in other parts of the country.

oh yes GetDownYouWillFall and coraltoes if you read my first post i am already upfor private so you guys pls dont worry!

I work for the NHS and all the staff where I work try their hardest whilst our buidgets are being sliced left right and centre - it is the same as any business - you get shit service in some stores and great service in others - no excuse but I would love lots of people who bitch about the NHS to come and work on a ward for a day and see what shit and abuse we have to put up with.

I don't work for the nhs but have been a long term patient for many years owing to type 1 diabetes. On the whole the care is pretty good providing you know how to work the system and when vulnerable you have someone else to stand up to certain staff on your behalf. Yes there are some bad staff out there but this depends on the specialty and hospital. I have had an HCA on maternity whose attitude and treatment was rude and if not for my dh would have resulted in a negligence claim. In a top London hospital I've had a nurse who can't speak English. However, I've also had many excellent nurses and doctors.

Privatisation is not going to make the system better just more expensive and more limited. It will be expensive to put into place (and who do you think will pay for that?)and more expensive to run because of the extra layer of profit that will need to come out of it. While it's all very well to say with the same money you could buy a good private health policy that doesn't take into account that the private health system in this country is nearly entirely based on the NHS. Where do all the private doctors receive their training, gain most of their experience and use the most complicated of equipment? The NHS. Also if you switch to a system where everything is based on profit you end up with limitations not just for the poor but on treatments considered high risk such as various surgeries and cancer treatments. Likely to result in a claim because of death or just not much uptake as too specialised? Ditch it because it's not commercially viable. Do you really want that as a future?

The system is under strain and is going to be put under considerably more over the next few years as the NHS is the 2nd biggest budget absorber after social security (pensions etc) so will be a target for the £150bn of savings we need to make. I would be in favour of part privatisation e.g. people paying for certain minor procedures on a means tested basis and certain drugs if refused on common basis by PCTs but complete privatisation may ruin the NHS and it does a pretty good job if you're in need of it which I am.

90% of the staff I have met have been absolutely lovely in awful low-resource and often mis-managed conditions (those are the real issues) and believe me, I have met a lot of NHS staff in many different hospitals!

Having heard first hand from US friends so many horror stories about (for instance) US healthcare and finances, I am beyond grateful for what we have with the NHS. There are horrible medical staff out there too probably in similar proportions, no amount of funding will fix that.

I've had two less than stellar births on the NHS myself - mistakes made perhaps causing long term damage, horrible midwives etc. However, I will always be a staunch supporter from the other care I have received. I just had bad luck and some of it was down to lack of resources.

Sorry OP, but that's utter bollocks.

Our NHS is stretched to breaking point, sure. But i'm bloody proud of it and the professionals that work within it. Privatisation would result in only the rich being able to afford healthcare while the poor, and even the moderately well off, rot. The horror stories i've heard from friends and family in places like America and South Africa make my blood run cold. Privatisation would be nothing more than a retrograde step that would end in disaster for many thousands of people.

Every time i've needed our National Health Service it has done me proud. Its people work under extremely stressful circumstances and yet, on the whole, treat people with dignity, respect and the utmost care. I gave birth 15 weeks ago - my first - and i have nothing but admiration for all who work there. My midwife stayed on long after her shift ended to see me through the birth. That's what i call dedication. And service.

Mantana I did agree with you once and would have disagreed with OP but I have changed my mind.

Basically there is not enough money so the NHS does its best to spend money effectively but that does not mean it gives the best care to the individual (which may be more expensive). So if its your baby or your mum and you can afford it, what will you do? You pay and go privately.

I have to be honest, having been an NHS supporter all my life, I did this recently and the care and outcome was not only better is was STRIKINGLY better.

The NHS is suffering death by a 1000 blows - in maternity you'll see the biggest threads are on women being refused epidurals and others being denied caesareans after traumatic deliveries. Women know about the state of SOME maternity units and are heading for the private sector where you get what you ask for and do not end up with post traumatic stress disorder!

The NHS is broke - staff are demoralised, it is hugely overbureaucratic, wasteful and users of the services are sometimes just incidentals to 'outcomes'.

So OP - I reckon you have a point!

OP, the UK NHS is the single biggest employer in Europe and your crashing generalisations, about "them" and "they" only serve to highlight how badly informed and frankly silly your post is.
But to make the point further, draw up a few patient profiles of people you think are deserving of state healthcare - age/gender/history etc - your choice - and get some quotes from private healthcare providers. Don't forget you'll need to factor in primary care and emergency cover too. I think it'll make interesting reading.

tonythetyger - i liked your answer and your view about part privatisation.. GetDownYouWillFall - i am done with it 2.5 yrs ago so the phrase is not for me.. and i am certainly not looking for ppl to agree with me or criticise me. i am here to understand what other ppl think abt it. i was looking for some genuine answers abt the situation.. like what ppl think as an individual and as the community.. there are lots and lots of helpless elderly ppl and women suffering everyday so they will have different opinions abt it. My point here was the govt should raise and manage the public money more carefully so the most important sectors like health and education does not suffer. On individual level we have a policy to prioritise our needs so for us health and education is more important than expensive holidays and things like that, and therefore we have decided to put our child in private school, this is what we feel and do.. and to end the argument- i am sorry if any good staff ppl felt bad, i understand they are under pressure but i just wish that they manage not to be rude with their patients.

So if you're pro private healthcare, why not pay up and stop taking up NHS spaces which would be better used on those who need and appreciate them.

ray8 I tend to find that people treat me as I treat them....if you treat staff as if they are rude, cruel, disrespectful, inhumane & providing a crap service what attitude do you expect in return?

Not a popular opinion but someone once pointed out to me that while staff have to be professional & respectful it is nowhere in their contract that they have to be smiley or friendly. IME the majority do try & be kind & friendly but perhaps they feel more comfortable around people who aren't obviously viewing all NHS staff in a negative light?

It's nowhere in my contract that I have to be pleasant to my work colleagues or clients but it's obvious to me that as a professional person you do, particularly when you work in a service industry. OP may not have put it in the most diplomatic way and has over-generalised, but I do believe that (sadly) she has a point. I am also not sure why it is a good thing that the NHS is the largest employer in Europe. Isn't this telling us that things are a little bit out of hand where the bureaucracy is concerned?

I don't agree with the OPs point that most staff are rude & cruel. I wonder if the OP is as rude towards NHS staff in RL as she has been on here?

I am sure you are right there thornykate - but (as you can tell from the number of people on here complaining about their treatment at the hands of HCPs, as well as recent scandals in the press about treatment of the elderly) - there is certainly a significant minority who do not have the compassion they should in their line of work. This may be due to overwork and stress but this itself suggests that the system does have its problems.

Well I had an awful birth but the NHS staff were wonderful and I could not fault them. I am diabetic and have CMT so am regularly in and out of hospital (mainly as an out patient) and have not a bad word to say about them. Obviously Some people have had bad experiences but they are more likely to talk about them than people who have had a good experience and were happy with their treatment IFSWIM