Anybody else thinks we are being a bit hard of the NHS with the epidural thing?

[3littlebadgers]

After two births abroad (husband in NATO) and my third and final one in the UK I kind of think we should count our lucky stars with what we have in the UK. Believe me we have it good. I am not saying that women are wrong to feel aggrieved if they have been offered the choice of various pain relief and then treated badly when they dared to ask for it, that is just wrong, we all deserve respect. All I am saying is that on the whole we are treated well and lets be right even if things don?t go to plan at least we are given the option of making a birth plan and making our wishes known.
For both of my first two labours (in separate places) I was confined to the bed. The second one I was even force to stay on my back and was quickly reprimanded if I dared move on to my side and lets be right after 10 hours, labour or no labour, my back ached beyond belief.
I was in a room with other labouring women, in one case the foot of my bed was actually in contact with the head of another woman?s bed and when I dared to turn around, to hold her hand and give her comfort through the later stages of labour again I was reprimanded.
In both cases my waters were broken at the same time as all of the other women in the room on a sort of water breaking round and I received a routine episiotomy despite the fact I pleaded with them not to do it.
Again in my second labour when I was pushing I did a poo. Not that I was proud or anything I was just given to believe it was quite common and when I brought it to the attention of the midwives they were disgusted and left me lying in my own faeces while I gave birth to my tiny son.
After the first forced episiotomy I was stitched up very badly and as a result suffered great pain mostly during intercourse but also at other times too. After six months I approached a gynaecologist for help. He raised his eyebrow asked my husband if it were bothering him. My husband said apart from the fear of hurting me he didn?t notice a difference to which the gynaecologist replied ?no problem then!?.
I am not bitter at my treatment during the births of my eldest two children (well apart from the Gyno bit). I was treated in the norm for the area and once I had my babies and had healed from the episiotomies there was no reason to dwell on it. I am luckier than some in the fact I have my babies to hold.
Is there anyone else out there with similar experiences or good birth stories in the UK? I just think it might be good for us to remember how lucky we are here and not always focus of the bad stuff.

your first two labours sound barbaric!

I'm truly shocked, where were they? (so I know never to set foot in a hospital there...)

Obviously you are going to have to tell us what countries you were in 3littlebadgers!

Where?

No I don't think we are hard on the NHS at all.

Obviously the UK is going to come out better against some countries.

The issue is that within the UK comparatively speaking maternity care is being cut to within an inch if its life. Failing to provide adequate pain relief because of staffing shortages is barbaric and such cuts would simply not be accepted in other areas of medicine.

Hi me again, They were both in a country trying to get into the EU. I don't want to name it outright as we are posted back there now and we are heavily monitored with all of our communications. I am sure you understand I don't want to cause any problems for my Husband. I am hoping from the clue above you will be able to work it out. They were in two different regions one in the north and one in the south. The first one (although in retrospect was the easier labour) was the biggest shock to me as I had spent 9 months reading all the baby mags and websites from the UK. While I expected it to be different I wasn't quite prepared for the extent.
It is done with now though and luckily the second episiotomy sorted out the probelms from the first. I am sure that there are a great many countries out there that have it worse. If nothing else I am proud that I am my eldest two got through it. Needless to say after my little girl was born in the UK I was overcome but the kindness and support of the Midwives.

I don't think that arguing that because other countries treat you so badly, you should lower your expectations of this country is the right way round at all.

I think you should raise your expectations of those countries you talk about!

nancydrewfoundaclue I agree about the cuts. Maybe a more suitable title would have been Anybody else thinks we are being a bit hard of the midwives with the epidural thing?

I've just had a baby in Canada (also a national health service) where I had a private room with throughout (although a shared bathroom with the next room for the couple of days I was in after I'd had the baby).

I was induced, so monitored continually for 3 days (on a mobile monitor) and when they switched to syntocin (after the whatsit up my hoojamaflip didn't work) I had a nurse in with me continuously

I was encouraged to be in whatever position I wanted (or wander the halls), and when it all got too much I was offered my choice of pain relief and had an epidural within 1/2 and hour (one of the ones on a drip, so it could never run out).

When nothing was working, and the baby was in distress there was a full discussion of my options, and again within 1/2 an hour of a decision I was in theatre (at 11 at night!).

After theatre I was in recovery for an hour (again, with continuously watchful nurse) then brought down to a new room where I was helped to feed my baby for the first time, a couple of days later helped to wash him, and generally was given care that I just couldn't fault from fantastic doctors and nurses.

That is what a national health service can be, BUT it should be noted that here I don't get free prescriptions, or free dental care, I don't get a health visitor checking in on me (past 6 weeks when the midwife stopped - and I had to go to her for the last 4 weeks of that)

In the UK you get an awful lot paid for that you just don't get anywhere else, and the money has to come from somewhere

personally I think this is a good example of bullying on mumsnet. Makes me very sad that women/mothers turn on women/mothers in this way and has made me think of leaving mumsnet many times. It has become absolutely acceptable to bully and belittle midwives recently on mumsnet and not one of you would have the courage of your convictions if I was stood in front of you...

who are you talking to?

I don't think we should be comparing the UK to those second world countries aspiring to get into the EU (and I also pray they don't get in the EU and subsidised by the so-called richer nations of the EU). The Canadian experience sounds much better. Amazed the OP didn't get private healthcare if her DH and family get sent to these awful places.

reikizen I am sorry I never meant for the thread to attack midwives. My aim was to turn it around and get people talking about the possitives. You do a fantastic job x

Just because there are countries with worse maternity care than the UK doesn't mean that we should accept without question the standard of care in the UK. I would expect the standards in the UK to be considerably higher than in a country attempting to enter the EU (generally Eastern European countries & Turkey). Maternity care in the UK is under-resourced, partly due to rising birth rates. I gave birth in a hospital which was not built for the numbers now giving birth there and not really adequately staffed for the number at that time of year. I had an extended episiotomy and a terrible recovery, possibly because there wasn't a theatre available for me to be stitched in. I was stitched in the delivery room with not all of the lightbulbs working and the doctor had difficulty in obtaining all of the equipment he wanted for the stitching. None of this is the fault of any HCP, just of insufficient funding. Similarly I found the postnatal care in hospital to be massively understaffed and as a result communication between the delivery unit and postnatal unit was insufficient - they didn't know that I had gone into shock and had a blood transfusion or that I had nerve damage from birth. Do you really think that is acceptable just because other countries have worse conditions?

I don't think that the epidural thing is the midwives fault - it's the fault of a hospital that doesn't have sufficient coverage by anesthetists.

Where I was, there was a 24Hr onsite anesthetist, in many UK hospitals they work 9-5 as usually they're only needed for scheduled surgery, or on-call for emergencies. A normal childbirth isn't considered an emergency (and obviously can't be scheduled) so it's hit and miss if you can get one.

The problem isn't the midwives, it's as nancydrew says, maternity care is allowed to be substandard because the people involved are too busy having and then looking after a baby to kick up enough of a fuss about it.

Who on earth has attacked midwives?

breatheslowly of course it is not acceptable and I am sorry you had such a traumatic birth. It sounds horrific and you have every right to be upset about your birthing experiance. There are a great many women out there that have had good birthing experiances and my hope was that some would be shared for one to give the poor midwives a break as they are trying to do their best despite such shortages and for two to give all of the ladies out there waiting to give birth a bit of hope.

what i think is it is taking too simplistic approach to a complex issue.

the whole way maternity services operate needs looking at, not just a single issue.

it strikes me far too often that things that make labour more painful are done in a 'we're doing it, and you can like it' kind of way. inductions, monitoring etc being cases in point.

I had a wonderful birth experience in the UK, but I do agree that maternity care in the UK is under funded, and that ante natal care could be much better (when I compare it to my first pregnancy in Italy)

the fact is that maternity services need a complete overhaul and I personally feel that they are downgraded partially because they are mostly staffed by and serve women, although as everyone has to get born at some point the logic of not making it a top priority escapes me!

Chunkypickle - your experience sounds very similar to mine, only I gave birth here in the UK. Maybe I was lucky, but my experience of midwives on the labour ward was only positive. I sing their praises at every opportunity. The postnatal bit wasn't so hot, but during labour, they were great.

tasmaniandevilchaser thank you for sharing a possitive x

tasmaniandevilchaser - I'm glad, definitely what a hospital birth should and can be (despite all that happened, I feel completely positive about the whole experience)

There really seems to be a culture of 'you got the baby, what does it matter how it got here' around labour in general, and we put up with it because we did get our baby after all.

They're happy to dose out the pain relief afterwards, but during the birth it's all '1000s of women have done this before' with no accommodation to the idea that just because this way works, it couldn't be better.

3littlebadgers - I think you have gone about this thread the wrong way. If you had simply said "any good birth stories" then you might have got a better response, rather than saying "I had poor experiences in other countries, so don't we have it good here".

You are so right I have been thinking of that myself oh well hind sight is a good thing. I am generally quite optimistic so foreseeing negativity is beyond me.