Why is there a shortage of midwives in England and what is the effect on pregnant women?

[jayno1]

BBC Radio 4
The Report
17/02/2011 8pm available on BBC iplayer

Available to listen
Why is there a shortage of midwives in England and what is the effect on pregnant women?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00yjs4h/The_Report_17_02_2011

Good listening

Thanks, will have a listen as missed it this week.

I heard most of this - must go back and listen to the bits I missed...
Thanks

Prehaps the shortage of midwives is due to all the women who otherwse would have trained now find it easier and less expensive to tran as doulas?

I think there are more midwives who have been trained and dropped out of midwifery, than actually practice.

It doesn't matter how many midwives are trained, if they can't be retained within midwifery.

So the issue isn't really a shortage per se, it's the conditions under which midwives are supposed to practice.

I spoke to a couple of student midwives who were present at my home birth and asked them why they chose midwifery (any distraction from contractions was welcome!) and they both said they liked that midwifery was more challenging than general nursing and it required extra training.

They also mentioned that jobs were hard to come by so it doesn't matter how many student midwives we have if there isn't the funding to employ them once they're qualified. We had the same situation with teachers a few years ago. A shortage of teachers led to numerous incentives to train but then they couldn't get jobs as schools didn't have sufficient funding to employ them.

I think student midwives are really worth their weight in gold. The only midwife I met during my labour that was in any way human was the student. She was really lovely, and a diamond amongst the utter bitches.

There is no shortage of midwives in the uk, just no jobs. NHS trusts are cutting back on staff so less midwives employed, plenty of unemployed midwives around. the effect on women is less one to one care in labour and significantly less support during the pregnancy and postnatally. Effect on midwives is stress++

I have to say my midwife support in Essex was fabulous. At one point I had 5 midwives and student midwives at my home birth due to shift changes and my CMW visited twice a day for the first few days after birth. I can't fault my midwife care at all other than not seeing my named midwife regularly during the pregnancy.

According to an article in the Times today,one of the effects of the shortage of jobs / places / midwives is the denial of epidurals for women who request them because if a MW is having to deal with more than one woman she can't be in attendance all the time and therefore they can't have them. NICE guidelines say if one is requested it should not be denied but it frequently is - usually the reason given is a clinical one, that it is too early or too late but often it is only too late because the anaesthetist wasn't asked (by the MW) or was unavailable. I think, as with nurses, they are (mostly) lovely people who want to do a good job but factors outside their control mean they have to act in a way they would prefer not to.

There is no shortage of people wanting to train. There is no shortage of people completing the training. There IS a shortage of jobs - the amount of "vacancy freezes" in the NHS in the last few years is phenomenal.

Also, not sure where the students gallicgirl met got the idea that midwives undergo "additional" training to nurses - they don't. 3 year diploma/3 or 4 year degree course, same for both.

You used to have to qualify as a nurse first before the direct route to midwifery was introduced - however, it's now nigh on impossible for qualified nurses to train as midwives. Most of the 18 month conversion courses for nurses have been axed and they're expected to do the full three years .

However, due to the job situation most of the dual trained people I know have had to go back to nursing after their MW training anyway (ditto HVs). At least they have that to fall back on, the people who have done the direct route don't even have that. It is disgraceful IMO, the government like to go on about a "midwife shortage" but there isn't! There just aren't the jobs upon qualification to enable them to stay in the profession.

at midwifery being more challenging than nursing, but I think regardless of jobs etc, less people are choosing nursing and midwifery as a career because we are led to believe that it's not something you do if you are intelligent which is a real shame.

Do you think so iamabadger? My friend was telling me that the university where we trained are now asking for something like ABB at A level for nursing degrees, I would assume MW similar if not higher, there always seemed to be more applicants per place for MW. Diplomas vanished altogether round these parts, so if anything you need to be brainier these days.
I agree the perception of nurses/MWs can be a bit odd, my ex was quite posh and all his mates assumed I must be a thick cos I was a nurse (maybe I am but I know plenty who aren't and I doubt any of their jobs were as challenging as MW on delivery suite!)

BTW I wouldn't advise anyone to go into either profession at the moment. Most rewarding jobs in the world but the conditions in the NHS are horrendous. I would much rather staff grade still earned £14k-ish like we did a decade ago if it meant we had the same amount of staff/cover for sick/mat leave like we used to!

I just seem to get a lot of people saying ooh i'd love to have been a nurse....but didn't, sort of as if they think we're all a bit soft and lovely and soppy, when in reality you need a thick skin and a lot of common sense!. My school were very po-faced about me choosing nursing, I went to a girls grammar and it just wasn't encouraged. Saying that, a lot of girls I knew at school are starting nurse training now in our mid-20's because their "proper" degrees aren't getting them jobs so maybe things will swing around again?

Read in a paper over the weekend how the birth rate is going to rise again due to the recession, as couples are staying in and finding something else to do rather than go out!!

So, if this is true, the situation is going to get even worse. Many midwives are also now moving abroad to practice as there is demand for them and they are being offered better working conditions and the opportunity to offer "one to one" care which they all aspire to give.

gailforce1 - And if the midwife bashing thread - I was tricked out of an epidural thread is anything to go by, midwives are not appreciated here, whereas if you go abroad at least you will be.

It makes me so sad - a good midwife is worth her weight in gold - and so many women don't appreciate this.

Probably because so many women don't meet a 'good midwife' Margles. They are rare.

There isn't a shortage of midwives, there is a shortage of money to employ them. I've been telling the media and MPs, etc this for years and feel I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

When I qualified I had to do office temping for nearly a year before I got a job. Situation improved slightly but is bad again now. The students where I work who are just qualifying are not been taken on even though there is a need to do so.

I don't think that good midwives are rare but I do think that staff shortages prevent a lot of midwives giving the one to one attention that they would like to give.

I don't agree Margles. I found plenty of unpleasant woman working in midwifery ten years ago when I had my children. And it wasn't lack of time, it was deeply unpleasant and unnecessary stuff coming out of their mouths.

We will have to agree to disagree then. I found one was a so and so, but the others were very good, but hopelessly overworked.