Anyone else 'tricked' out of epidural?

[liznay]

I went over my birth notes today at the 'Birth Reflections' service at my local hospital. (In order to get closure and prepare for No 2!)
To cut a long story short, My previous labour was 27 hours from start to finish although I was only admitted for the last 7 hours.

I asked for an epidural no less than 6 times during this period and was given the excuse that I needed to be 4 cm before I could get one.
Suprise, Suprise, no one would examine me to check how dilated I was and so then it became 'too late' to give me once I had reached 10 cm.
Despite Nice guidelines saying that no woman should be refused an epidural (even in the latent first stage!) apparently the hospital have their own policy.
I am SO ANGRY about this and feel that I was ignored and treated like a small child. Incidentally, the hospital are unapologetic about this and refused to say sorry about the care I received. The most that they would conceed was that they had 'somehow failed me'.
Why is this still happening to us in the 21st century? Anyone else had a similar experience? What can we do about it, and how can we prevent it happening for subsequent births? It's time that midwives stopped deciding for us how much pain relief we need and consult with us regarding how to make our births more comfortable. Not saying that all midwives are like this, but mine was a particular dragon....
I don't want this to turn into a debate on the pro's/cons of epidurals as this has been done to death elsewhere...

Oh jazzers absolutely. Absolutely. If a bath will help you, fantastic and fair play to you. But I was left in the room and checked twice during the whole labour; by two different midwives. I wasn't about to get one to one care; but that was probably due to staffing issues. My point is that if a lady wants an epidural, she shouldn't be instantly refused one. I know my tolerences, and I'd quite like that to be taken into consideration.

The midwife said to my epi request; 'perhaps later, I'll run you a bath'.
To which I said
'No, I really don't want a bath, this is too much for me, please, I really need help'.
She said;
'We'll see'.

My anger stems from the midwife who didn't seem to think I knew my own mind. I know when enough is enough.

I have worked in Afghanistan for part of my work. The poor men who come back wounded (God help them) are not told to 'wait' for an injection of morphine when they are seriously injured. I have trained as part of a fast reaction team, and no one has ever, and will ever beg me for pain relief. Because they are not dogs. They are people who frankly, have been through enough.

I know that's not a very good parallel, but I hope you can see where I am coming from.

sorry - risk

JazzieJeff - I understand where you are coming from.
did you complain the the supervisor of midwives or to the trust?
did you go through your notes afterwards with anyone?

Anyone treated like that should complain.

Agree Jazzy.
Childbirth is an amazing event and should be the best day of any woman's life.

You are wrong.

The initial use for continuous monitoring was intended to reduce cerebral palsy. Which it did not.

I 3rd that.

Ha ha - I have not got the hang of quoting etc - I was responding to matanx, not people who were agreeing with me !!

Lazyarsed that I am - have obviously not bothered to read the protocol

'Mathanxiety either you or I are not reading the posts properly.....

'risk - 1:15000, 1:10, 1:1000....whatever - if you are that one - try just laughing it off. All I said was that women need to be informed of this. Is this a problem.'

I take this to mean, it doesn't matter what % the risk is, if you are that 1% category who is affected then it is not so easy to laugh off IYYIM.'

Right. Maths lesson here.
1% does not equal 1.
1 in 15,000 is not 1%
1% of 15,000 is 150

You are not in a '1% category' if you are 1 in 15,000. Or 1 in 1000. You are in a 1% category if you are 1 in 100. Only. No exceptions.

Maybe it is just a typo on your part or maybe I am just a smart aleck better at maths than my moniker implies?

But I actually am beginning to suspect that many here do not actually understand basic maths, or basic statistical principles, while at the same time banging on about risk.

It absolutely does matter how large or small the risk is if you are using the word risk and using risk as an argument against a medical procedure. If the patient does not know that the risk may be 1 in 15,000, then the patient may assume it's 1 in 15. An exponentially higher risk.

'include' doesn't mean 'only', Jazzers.

we always tell women of the risk - in figures - havent the foggiest what they mean cos i am thick

you are very clever mind math - no body else on here could work out the %risk. Well done you, bravo.

do you really really not want people to be told of the risks of anything in pregnancy just because its 1:15,000 ?

Really ?

Oh whatever. I jumped in faster than anyone else apparently did to point out the bleeding obvious and I hope none of your patients teaches maths for a living or you will be on the hot seat.

At least you now know what percentage means .

Seriously, do you really not know what the figures mean when you talk about risk or when you undertake procedures or decide against them?

Because that is really frightening.

math - when you had your epidural were you told of the risk??
as in a very accurate %/ ratio ?

If you were not then that is negligent

Of course we fucking know - stop patronising us

If a risk is one in 15,000 (and again let's be absolutely clear that does not mean 1% of 15,000) then I hope you are making it clear that it is not 1%, and that this is a really, really, really small risk.

Uterine rupture is an extraordinary event.

I take this to mean, it doesn't matter what % the risk is, if you are that % category who is affected then it is not so easy to laugh off IYYIM.' ....
Is what I meant Mathanxiety

FFS

My epidural took place in 1990. I don't remember the exact details of the risks even though they were explained to me as I was being admitted to the hospital in early labour and not right there in the room before the procedure was performed. There was probably no negligence involved, as it was in the US and lawyers make a lot of money out of the medical profession, especially obstetrics.

'we always tell women of the risk - in figures - havent the foggiest what they mean cos i am thick' If my response to this is what you mean by your 'patronising' remark, then I think it was an honest question. Do you or don't you know what the figures mean? Bearing in mind that upthread you used the term 'whatever' about figures. Either you don't know or you don't care, and neither is very comforting.

Elbow, the poster who initially used the % sign put a number 1 in front of it, and there was no indication she understood the difference between 1 in 15,000 and 1% of 15,000.

I read what was there.

ok, Elbow, it was you -- 'if you are that 1% category who is affected then it is not so easy to laugh off IYYIM.'

Say what you mean, and don't mix up numbers and percentages. They are completely different things.

If a woman is in such terrible pain that she requests an epidural, and her midwife or doctor has the honesty to say "I'm sorry you are in pain, but due to the significant risk of ABC and the likelihood of XYZ intervention we have to refuse you an epidural" I have no problem.

But I have yet to read that story here. What I am reading is "No, you can't have it yet dear, just a bit longer, when you're Xcm, you can bear it, no can't have it yet you're doing fine, whoops the anesthetist is busy now, just have to do it the old fashioned way, it's okay it's natural pain, aren't you proud of yourself!" I'm frankly appalled that there seems to be people out there that think this is an acceptable way for professionals to "manage" a labour.

math - and I said you were patronising me be even asking if I know what ratios are?
YES - of course I do. Even a thick midwife can work them out - its not thast hard surely.

And - as the other person put it, as Im sure you know - I meant exactly what she said until you pulled it apart because she had put a 1 in front of the % sign

I mean - in SIMPLE language - it doesnt matter what the % risk is! Whether its 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000 - WHATEVER THE RATIO - its still a risk. And we do tell women of the risk - in figures as they MUST be told

Do not label me as uncaring or uneducated. You do not know me.

You are being the one to not understand - others knew what i meant - it seems only you had issue with it by not understanding it

MaryMungo - you have heard other people say that.

You have not heard a professional on here say that.

As has been mentioned SEVERAL times on here - midwives quite like epidurals

That was me and yes it was a typo. I wwas merely trying to point out that there are issues surrounding people either not getting the jist of another person's post. I took the post to mean what I said....you jumped on the number thing. Anyway, for what it's worth if you as a PERSON are that PERSON who is affected then it doesn't matter how low or high the likelyhood of that happening is.

Hear hear MaryM

There is a 1 in 2,232 risk of fatally slipping in the bath or shower. I still use it every day though.