should I try and talk DSis out of a 2nd CS?

[viewsplease]

I am a regular poster but have name changed for this so that if I decide to, I can show my Dsis the responses without knowing my regular posting name (is that odd? probably a subject for a different thread )

Some background:
Dsis is due to have DC2 in April. She has DS who will be 21m then. Her labour with DS was progressing slowly - in labour for nearly 24 hrs when DS started getting distressed, so she had EMCS. Turns out the cord was wrapped around DS's ankle which was causing the problem. She recovered well but was pretty scared by the whole experience (as was her DH).

DS is now expecting DC2. Her FIL and SIL and BIL are all doctors and she has, as you would expect, seen a consultant re this baby. They have advised a second CS. I am so tempted to try and talk her out of this though, but am biting my lip because it is none of my business at the end of the day, but...I am really worried about how hard she will find it recovering from a second CS with a busy toddler and living where she does (up a mountain, only able to drive anywhere). Also the EMCS was because of unfortunate circumstances (the cord) rather than any problem with her ability to give birth IYSWIM?

To put my experiences into context, I had DS1 in birthing centre and DD at home, DS2 was induced at 37 wks and I was in theatre about to have EMCS when thankfully DS2 decided to come out, so I have some experience of what it feels like to be rushed into theatre (although I was in such agony at that point I would have happily agreed to have my leg amputated, unlike DSis, who was "only" in non-established labour so probably more with it and so more scared by it. Physically I bounced back very easily from all 3 births so I know I am very lucky...but I think DSis could do the same and that she should at least try the natural route....?

Please tell me of your experiences of births post EMCS, what would you advise? From friends I do know who have had subsequent CS's (through physical necessity), they say recovery is harder in itself, added to the challenges of dealing with other DC's, especially if they are too young to understand why they can't climb over mummy, be picked up etc. Their view seems to be that CS would be last choice.

from my experience, i tried a vbac after a emcs and it failed after only a couple of hours being in labour. DD was in distress and my scar was in danger of rupturing so ended up having another EMCS. this time round it was not as traumatic as there was not a long and arduous labour and i recovered very quickly from it probably due to not being exhausted. AT the time DS was 21 months and i was lucky to have lots of help around as it was hard not being able to pick him up for a few weeks etc. if she is not that bothered by the natural birth experience then a elcs can just be as lovely.

I had an emcs under GA. If I ever had a 2nd child I would definitely ask for a elcs - unless I was really, really, really confident in the consultant's advice to try for VBAC.

I was fine after the CS and recovered quickly. I would butt out if I were you. Her decision is not for you to influence. I personally would be very cross if someone started laying guilt trips on me about VB.

honestly - I don't think you should try and talk your dsis out of anything.

her birth, her choice.

after an elcs she won't have the exhaustion and trauma from an emcs - she will also have time to plan whatever support she feels she may need. After my second cs I was back to normal pretty quickly.

what you can do is offer to support her post birth whatever route she chooses.

continue to bite your lip!

Another one here for biting your lip. I had a CS after an EMCS and it was so much better the second time round and I recovered a lot quicker. Many hospitals will not let you try for a vaginal birth for long anyway (my hospital said 6 hours).

3 doctors and her consultant have all recommended she have a c-section. Why would that be? Is it to do with the womb having a weak area where the scar is?

I had a really good and quick recovery after my elective section. And in some ways it might be easier for her, living up the mountain, a 2nd DC to consider childcare for etc, if she will know exactly the time and date of the birth.

Oh and I expect your sister will be aware that babies can come out naturally - so probably won't need telling.

TBH, I think you need to let her make her own decision.

Although I have no personal experience of CS and am planning, all being well, a second VB myself, I have 2 friends who have had both and actually preferred their CS births. One had a young toddler already when they had their CS and found recovery much easier than expected.

Instead of trying to persuade her towards a VB, why don't you try looking at it from her perspective and support her with her decision? Birth can be hard enough without friends and family making us feel guilty about our choices and IMO, however genuine your reasons, you run that risk if you try to change her mind.

A VB isn't the be all and end all - a healthy and happy baby and mum is.

No. You should let her make up her own mind. It's her choice. If you're worried about how hard it will be after, why don't you offer to help her out?

you have to really have your heart in it to go for VBAC, and it is no-one elses decision to make.

from what you have written, a second c.s is recommended because she has had a first c.s.... unless there are other reasons that she's not disclosed. odds of a succesful VBAC hover around 70 % or so which is similar to anyone else attmepting a v.b

for me, the VBAC was an extraordinary experience and one that I will never forget and it was incredibly empowering. but that's MY experience.

old school docs, IME< tend to be more pro c.s than VBAC.

you can tell her what oyu think. but absolutely not your job to talk her in or out of anything

I was driving 2 weeks after my Elective (second section), signed off by the Doctor. I think the fact that i had walked there (1.25 miles) across hilly terrain with a double buggy proved i would be able to drive ok

My DD was 21 months when DD2 born. She was used to me not always picking her up as i had not done so for a while in late pregnancy so she got used to not being carried around. I could lift her into the bath or in and out of the cot ok after a few days

Both of my sections were very positive experiences, so please don't assume a section is a negative thing or second best

Sorry - read that back and it sounded a bit harsh. Just meant that practical help will be useful if she's in an isolated area. Also bear in mind she may not want to discuss birth-related issues with you at all - are you close? Personally, I wouldn't want to talk to my SIL about this kind of thing.

I had a fabulous VBAC experience but that was with the medical advice being that it would be better to try that than have an elcs. If the medical advice she has been given is to have an elcs I would assume that there are good reasons for that because I was almost begging for one in fear before my VBAC and they talked me round. Just because you don't know of any good reasons doesn't mean there aren't any, just that you don't know them. So best leave the advice to the medics who do.

fine after my elective. It was easier with older child being able to plan the help i would need and also when i would need it. Depending on the area a natural birth post section can also be a bit grim - have to have canula, be strapped to monitor and so on. Different consultants and midwifes will have different ideas about when labour is not working so she may have the scary out of control feeling that she had in first labour.

Let her make her own decision. I did have VBACs for both my births after an emregancy C-S under GA but that was my choice and, as Lulumaam says, it was in my heart to go for it.

As regards the toddler, I had my appendix removed when I was 31 weeks pg with DD2 - DD1 was 20 months. She was able to quite quickly understand that I could not lift her, and that if she let me sit down, she could get up on my lap for the required cuddle. In fact, she had a terrible cold when I was recovering from my surgery, and we spent a lot of time lying on the sofa together watching CBeebies.

Let your DSis make her decision, then do whatever you can to support her in that. I wish her all the best whatever she decides.

I think it's her baby and her decision. I wouldn't have welcomed my sister telling me I was wrong - I did appreciate her supporting my decision though.

Ds1 was born by EMCS after a 30 odd hour labour. He was whisked off to SCBU before I barely had a chance to look at him. I had PND as a result of my feelings of failure to bring him into the world properly.

I spent the majority of my pregnancy with ds2 utterly terrified a the thought of going through it again (this was almost 6 years later btw, took tha long to get my head round it).

In my heart of hearts, at the beginning I knew an elective would be a better option, but was worried how it would look to other people so said I wanted a vbac. The day they told me he was breech at 38+3 I was so relieved. Asked for a section straight away, nd turned down their suggestions of ecv/vaginal breech birth.

My recovery was so much quicker and easier this time, I wasn't separated from my baby and after a stern talking to by my wonderful mw before the birth, I knew I wasn't a failure this time

Sorry. Long and possibly irrelevant waffle. Let your sis make her choice, and support her through it.

Ftr, my sis was glad I went for the ELCS. I know though that had I gone for the VBAC and regretted it, she wouldn't have said 'I told you so'.

I had a planned 2nd CS after an AWFUL attempt at normal birth and I would be pissed off if you tried to change my mind.

The emotional recovery is hard and my ma reason for the 2nd was my fear of another slw birth and my baby being brain damaged....my DD1 didn't breathe for a lng time after they got her out and it was luck and amazing care that she's fine.

Her choice and her recovery is nothing to do with you...planned sections are easier to recover from too.

I have a friend who had a terrible ELCS experience, she wishes she had gone for trial VBAC instead.

I think it's reasonable of you, OP, to ask her respectfully about the reasons why she wants the ElCS. As long as you make it clear that you respect her decision and that you're only concerned that she is fully informed about the advantages or drawbacks, then she won't mind talking it thru with you (you are her loving sister, right?).

I think the ladies who have replied on this thread have shown a great deal of control and dignity.

I have had two natural births. But when I was 13 I witnessed what happens when a csec goes wrong with my mum (I will not post as I do not wish to scaremonger) If someone had tried to convince me to have a csec because they had a bad birth and thought it would be better for me I would be very angry. This is similar to what you are suggesting doing to your SIL only the opposite way she is scared of a VB and it is entirly her choice how she gives birth to her baby, I would be very annoyed if any woman tried to patronize me by believeing they knew better than me and my descion was not the right one, leave her alone op.

You should keep quiet. It is none of your business, and she is surrounded by doctors in her family so will already have had plenty of advice.

Also, elective cs is very different (and much easier to recover from) than emergency cs. If you persuade her to go for a VBAC, there is a chance she will end up with an emergency cs and be in a worse position than if she had gone for an elective.

mloo she WILL be informed....her care givers will have seen to that.

I think its absolutely none of your business. Your post makes it sound as if you somehow know better than her and the medical professionals looking after her. I have read so many posts on so many forums where women are traumatised because they didn't get the natural drug and intervention free birth that they wished for and I believe that this often leads to PND as women feel they have failed in some way.
I had an EMCS and it wasn't the traumatic experience the internet had me believe. When the time comes again, I will be pushing for an ELCS and will probably have to fight for it. I would be very quick to tell a meddling relative where to go if they presumed to have any input into my birth choices.

Paisleyleaf - the three doctors you referred to were the various in-laws? Whether they are worth listening to depends on their area of expertise.

Is the sister happy with the consultant's advice? If so then it's probably best to say nothing.

Margles, I know.

I have had two EMCS...the second after trying for a VBAC, still recovered fine and ds1 was also 21 months old. A planned CS would have been a much nicer experience than another labour and subsequent EMCS. I agree with crispy that ''Both of my sections were very positive experiences, so please don't assume a section is a negative thing or second best''

TBH you really should leave well alone....you sound judgemental (and a bit smug sorry) in your attitude of her opting for another CS. It is ABSOLUTELY NONE of your business! If you want to help then do just that afterwards in a practical way.

How would you feel if someone questioned (i.e. criticised) your reasoning for having your babies in a birthing centre/at home??

Sorry, im sure you mean well, but leave well alone.

Maybe you should read te NICE guidelines...there is a reason why a 2nd CS is offered, its not just done on a whim. The health of the mother can suffer with a VBAC, even though the risks are low, it is a risk not everyone is prepared to take.

viewsplease- there's nothing in your post about what your sister wants?

You say what her consultant told her, and what her relatives (who could be GPs or brain surgeons, not specialists in this area) say she should do.

You don't say what she wants to do.

I don't know how close you are to her, but whilst I don't think you should 'talk her out' of having a section if that's what you want, if you feel that she's been told "this is what you have to do" and not given the chance to explore her own feelings and preferences then that's another matter entirely and something that, as a sister, you could sensitively allow her to do.

If she has had the facts and made her decision, leave her be and think about practical ways you can support her. Not everyone is looking for a magical natural birth experience. For some people, particularly after a traumatic first birth, the relative control and calm of a planned section can be exactly what they need to move on and have a good birth.