If childbirth was as dangerous as it was a few hundred years ago, would you do it?

[CuppaTeaJanice]

We are so fortunate in this country, and in this millennium, to be able to give birth in relative safety and comfort, and to have medical interventions and technology available to us when necessary which have saved the lives of many mothers and babies.

Just a few hundred years ago, when our great great.....great grandmothers were having children, the experience must have been very different. I know society would have been unrecognisable from what it is now, and they didn't know any different, and it was probably expected of women to produce children (more so than now). But it must still have been an incredibly scary experience to give birth without proper pain relief or midwifery care, even assuming that the birth was straightforward.

Antenatal scans, C-sections, epidurals, syntocin(sp?) drips, heartbeat monitors, forceps, kiwis, anaesthetic, special care baby units, NCT classes - just a few of the things not available to our ancestors.

So, assuming that our society was the same in all other ways, but modern birthing methods and assistance weren't available, and so giving birth was as dangerous as it was hundreds of years ago, would you still choose to have children?

As others have said I'd only have done it once due to probably dying the first time.

Also (not that I've read the whole thing) I think that you're being a bit naive. Even 60-65 years ago women in this country were forced to live with horrific injuries following childbirth.

When my grandma had my dad in the late 40s she was (in her words) destroyed. Plastic surgery was then in infancy (forgive the pun) but she was one of the first to have it trialled for that particular use. She was lucky. Others in her generation had to suffer permanent disability.

No, definitely not.

Oddly was just talking about this at the weekend, and I said I would have run for the convent at the first opportunity. :)

In fact, the hereditary problem (pre-eclampsia) that has affected every one of my recent maternal ancestors would have killed my own mother, so I would never have had the chance to find out.

WRT forceps, I heard something on the radio about them - they were invented by a family of surgeons who then kept them secret for the best part of 2 centuries whilst they profitted from their "trade secret". Think how many babies they could have saved had they let their technique become public knowledge

see here

what buttonmoon said. and there are childbirth injuries - thinking of obstetric fistula here - which have been erradicated in developed countries due to advances in obstetric medicine. still a BIG problem in developing countries.

Cleofartra you might be interested/pleased to hear that The Rosie Maternity Unit at Addenbrookes Hospital in Cambridge has just started a major renovation/extension that will include a birthing pool in every room.
Currently TTC my first at the moment so, fertility depending, I hope it will be finished in time for me to make use of it!

DH's grandfather was one of 16 children, 15 of whom survived infancy. They were born over a period of just 20 years and the poor mother died a month after giving birth to the last child at the age of 44

yes i would because i thought giving birth would be faily straightforward.

i don't know if i would have died giving birth a few hundred years ago as i was induced and ended up having a cs as ds was back to back and got stuck.

perhaps all would have been well if i had gone into labour naturally. perhaps ds would have turned. who knows?

That's interesting about the 'pave the way' theory. I would have survived DS1's birth but he wouldn't. DS2 was easy.

I bought the Tina Cassidy book expecting it to be the story of how birth has become unnecessarily medicalised. Instead I found it a pretty scary account of how birth has always had the potential to be dangerous.

cavemum - you're a lucky thing to get to give birth at the rosie, it's a fabulous maternity unit, my brother was born there as were a number of friends babies and my nieces, I foolishly moved to london so have had very 'different' experiences of care.

Robyn, I know we're lucky to have such a renowned unit nearby, though I heard that a fee years ago they went through a rough patch.

Just got to do the getting pregnant thing now!

cavemum - that's possible, all the babies I know who were born there were either born 20+ years ago or in the past 3 years...

good luck with getting pg!

I always chuckle to myself at people who complain about birth being overly medicalised. Yes we deserve to labour with dignity and a choice in how we want to be looked after but lets get real at how much more advantaged we are than women who went before us.

"Yes we deserve to labour with dignity and a choice in how we want to be looked after but lets get real at how much more advantaged we are than women who went before us"

But in the 1960's when I was born the c/s rate was less than 5% - and the vast majority of women and babies survived birth in good health.

If the c/s rate is nearly 1 in 3 in some UK hospitals now you've really got to ask yourself why. I'm glad we don't have to fear death and serious disability in the way that women did in the past, but I still think it's a scandal that there are hundreds of thousands of mums having avoidable abdominal surgery every year in the UK.

cleofartra

The medical profession would argue that older mothers, epidurals and increased obesity has led to an increase in c sections but undoubtedly there is also an element of not wanting to risk birth complications and also working to a timetable, along with women demanding c sections. Not all of those who have c sections are unhappy to have had them. If I was given the choice between breech birth with higher chance of large episiotomy or a section, I'd go for the section every day.

I think women need to question themselves as to who is responsible for the growth in c section rates - if the babys heart rate is dropping or there is a bleed, then they are vital but sometimes its done because the Mum is too tired after a long, arduous labour. Totally understandable but not the fault of the medics surely?

Whitethorn

But if Mum is too tired after a long arduous labour, can the medics just wash their hands of it and say it's not their fault? How many problems could be avoided if there wasn't a lack of continuity of care, and 2 or 3 labouring women didn't have to share a midwife?

I can't help noticing reading Mumsnet that many caesareans happen after failed inductions. Instead of saying that they were just one of those things, isn't it time to question how many of these inductions were really necessary? Where they just because the woman was deemed to be overdue but was less than 42 weeks, and might well have laboured easily if not interfered with?

I don't know the answers to these, but I still think the questions are worth asking.

Modern medicine has its place but I am with cleofarta when questioning the 33% cs rate of some hospitals.

Thanks Campion - that's a really interesting report. Ethnicity seems to be at least as big a risk factor as the things you'd assume would be - age, mental and physical health, social deprivation etc.

"The medical profession would argue that older mothers, epidurals and increased obesity has led to an increase in c sections"

Obesity and older age of first baby are undoubtedly and issue, but most doctors are adamant that widespread use epidural analgesia has no bearing on c/s rates.

"Not all of those who have c sections are unhappy to have had them".

Maybe those with planned c/s. I can't imagine there are many women who have had an emergency c/s who wouldn't have preferred a vaginal birth if it could have been achieved safely for them and their baby.

"I think women need to question themselves as to who is responsible for the growth in c section rates - if the babys heart rate is dropping or there is a bleed, then they are vital"

Not always - and this is half the problem. It's inappropriate use of monitoring that can lead to a rise in c/s, without any improvement in infant mortality/morbidity. The more we look for 'problems' the more we find.