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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

I had a emcs but I absolutely love this!

84 replies

RubyBuckleberry · 12/11/2010 22:05

"When women understand what?s available to us at birth, then we won?t ever give that over to an expert? the birth power, the orgasmic power that?s in our bodies. When you meet a woman who has had an ecstatic birth, you can?t talk her into taking drugs that aren?t good for her body. You can?t talk her into a hysterectomy that she doesn?t need. You can?t talk her into a crummy diet. She?s come home to her body. She knows what this body is capable of. She loves this body. This body loves her. And there?s nothing like the transformation available at birth to nail that in there in such a way that she becomes illuminated, because she?s a channel for life. And then she becomes a channel for life in all its forms."

and

"What we?re finding is that it does matter?it absolutely does matter?how somebody comes into the world. And it doesn?t mean all babies should be born this way or that way. It just means that we have to pay attention and recognize that those babies are having experiences. And the way that birth happens when it?s left to happen naturally, without drugs and without forceps, is really what the baby?s body is expecting. There?s a biological readying that?s happening. So it?s incredibly important that we start thinking about this time period in a new way, and we start caring for moms and babies and families around the birth experience in much more thoughtful and mindful ways than we are doing right now."

from this website

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larrygrylls · 15/11/2010 17:53

EdgarAllen,

Insanitary=natural in the true sense of the word. Since when was hygiene natural? It is an intervention, albeit one we all agree is good.

Of course we should pay attention to the quality of the birth. I just think it is an individual thing and it is to some extent and equation of risks vs the experience.

If it were up to me, my wife would be having the ELCS one is offered after a caesarian. But it is not and I recognise the value of the experience to her. However, we are going into hospital (after some minimal labouring at home) to be monitored, so it is ultimately a compromise.

Margles · 15/11/2010 18:04

"Prior to interventions, about 1 in 5 babies died in birth and a fair proportion of mothers."

I doubt it - I think someone is trying to oversell the benefits of intervention.

I found these stats from the WHO for 2003
www.who.int/healthinfo/statistics/02.whostat2005graph_under5infantmortality.jpg

Even in the worst cases the infant mortality is only 1 in 10 (which is still far too high).

EdgarAirbombPoe · 15/11/2010 20:12

word. Since when was hygiene natural? It is an intervention, albeit one we all agree is good.

hygeine is natural - people living 'wild' as it were, keep themselves pretty clean (as indeed do other mammals) - it was only with the rise of civilisation you see hot spots for disease - due to living in close quarters with other humans and their parasites.

Think of the vulerability of tribal peoples to disease when confronted by city-dwelling europeans...they had had no reason to develop the same level of immunity.

Dimi · 16/11/2010 09:48

Well Edgar, I would love to know how you would feel if you baby died during labour 2 weeks overdue when you were happy to go natural and want to do the best for your child and then mothers instinct kicked in as it did with me and I knew something was wrong, begged for a c section days before my baby was born and if I had got the c section I asked for, she would be alive....so really, the most important thing here is that your baby is alive!
It is a personal choice and no mother should be bullied into thinking the way her child enters the world is going to affect her baby....it doesn't. It's how you love and nurture that baby and attend to all it's needs that makes you a good parent!

EdgarAirbombPoe · 16/11/2010 12:39

no-one ever claims birth is risk free or no intervention is necessary.

but women are often treated very badly whilst in labour for reasons that have nothing to do with evidence based medicine, or even resourcing issues. reading any childbirth thread on here you will find many examples of that. in some cases i believe that lack on concern causes unnecessary interventions, and possibly in some cases it causes deaths.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/11/2010 16:59

Dimi, I didn't say this before and should have but I am so sorry for your loss SadSad. Thanks for telling your story.

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carlyvita · 16/11/2010 17:55

Well, what a hot topic you've spun!

Humph! My thoughts...

No birth is risk free. No intervention is risk free. Agreed.

Labour, or parts of, can be a pleasurable experience, of course.

Hygene is of course important. But hygene and hospitals? Forget it! How many people come and go through doors and pass germs. If you want to be exposed to something that your body won't have built up antibodies against, a swarming hive of strangers; ill and labouring people, trapsing their families and birth attendents around, is the place to head! Home all the way, baby!

I personally love these quotes. Thanks RubyBuckleberry for sharing 'em again.

And erm, agree Margles... What! I'm guessing this is a joke! "Prior to interventions, about 1 in 5 babies died in birth and a fair proportion of mothers." Give me a date, country and study name and a definition of "intervention" please before I die of laughter!

carlyvita · 16/11/2010 18:17

Oh and...

I think it is helpful comparing the 1960's with today too.

Look at the bigger picture too. The manner in which NHS trusts are funded today. In a theatre near you.

If you have spare surgeons and a gap in their day, it brings in good cash to wheel a "struggling" woman in that has had a couple of dips of distress and maybe a long time of it, free up a bed and much needed midwife in process. That is good, slick business. And make no mistake, a business is exactly what an NHS trust is.

People don't generally choose c-sections. Women, posh, eductated or not are, to coin a phrase, "conned and cut" (AIMS, last issue).

I thought for many years that my surgical intervention was vital to the survival of my baby. I read through all my notes last week now am expecting again and was disgusted to find that it was not.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/11/2010 20:04

carlyvita, the whole thing is utterly fascinating. are you saying that women are conned - lots of babies declared 'in distress' are not?

i watched the business of being born you can also watch it on youtube. brutal, it was. and completely eye opening.

bagofholly, its interesting what you say about the ina may women being self-selecting. i wonder how she and her midwives would do if they worked in a state hospital - she has delivered lots of babies including breech twins so she's had lots of experience...

(sorry, just catching up)

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