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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Do women actually want a foceps delivery rather than a caesarean?

113 replies

Strix · 21/10/2010 08:39

Yikes. I know I wouldn't. But, perhaps I'm in the minority. This article talks about how doctors should be better trained in forceps so they could use them more. And I just wonder why they have only asked doctors in this article and not mentioned whether this is what the women giving birth want.

I personally don't think it's a good idea to clamp some steel tongs on my baby and pull him/her by the head. And if the baby's head doesn't fit through my tunnel, how on earth are they going to get head and tongs through?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11589284

OP posts:
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thirtysomething · 21/10/2010 08:48

No way. IMHO they are barbaric and cause all sorts of problems for both the baby and his/her Mum (my experience anyway). i would have much preferred a CS.

TheChewyToffeeMum · 21/10/2010 08:53

There are risks involved with any type of birth. The risks of CS are greater than forceps - it is that simple.

Why is the idea of forceps worse to you than then cutting open a body?

Many of the posters here were born by forceps, many will have had their babies delivered by forceps. Some of these babies and mothers would have died without the forceps.

Obstetricians don't use forceps for fun - they save lives.

FWIW I have had both.

polkadottytotty · 21/10/2010 08:54

I have a dent in my forehead from where they tried to pull me out with forceps - didn't work and my mum had a CS in the end.
Apparently I looked a sight when I was eventually born - bruised and battered, thick lip etc.
I've heard lots of horror stories about forcep deliveries.

My DS1 was delivered by ventouse - which is better than forceps IMO, although by that point (after 3 days of slow back-to-back labour) I was begging for a CS.

lovingpickles · 21/10/2010 08:55

An episiotomy is routinely performed during a forceps delivery which enables forceps to be inserted in the vagina. I had a forceps delivery and from a recovery perspective it was awful - long and painful. My friends who had EMCS recovered quicker. However, my baby was delivered in perfect health and the forceps marks disappeared within a couple of hours of birth. CS are riskier to mother and baby than forceps which is why they are looking to reduce the number carried out. Personally, if I were to have another baby I would flatly refuse forceps.

Dumbledoresgirl · 21/10/2010 09:01

I've had a forceps birth. It wasn't pleasant at the time, but let's face it, a CS wouldn't have been pleasant either.

Ds came out with a couple of bruises on his head where the forceps had been. They faded after a few days. He is unharmed by it, perfectly functional, intelligent, more to the point alive.

As am I.

Yes, maybe a CS would have achieved the same result, but a CS is major abdominal surgery, not without its own risks. Both at the time, and retrospectively, I am perfectly happy I had a forceps delivery over a CS.

With regard to "I don't think it's a good idea to clamp some steel tongs on my baby and pull him/her by the head", have you seen a CS on tv? The way the doctor grabs the baby by its head is quite alarming.

sunndydays · 21/10/2010 09:05

I thought that once the baby had descended so far down the birth canal they couldn't do a cs and therefore could be left with no other option other than to use forceps? My dd1 was born by forceps delivery after failed ventouse but I think it was all a bit of an emergency and by the time they might have prepared me for an emcs it may well have been too late? Dd did have a headache fore a while and I certainly am still to recover but all I cared about was getting dd out safely I'm not sure I was actually consented about the forceps though?

LynLiesNomoreZombieFest · 21/10/2010 09:08

Agree with sunndydays.

Cs not possibble when baby is that low.

bamboobutton · 21/10/2010 09:13

i had an attempted forceps delivery with ds, the one where they try and turn the baby, keilands? ended up with emcs as it didn't work.

if we had known how dangerous it was i would've got dh to push for emcs, i was off my face on G&A so just signed the form without really knowing what i was doing and dh didn't know how risky it is.

i had an elcs for dd as she was back to back like ds was and i knew the risks then so didn't want to have another stuck baby and risk being coerced into keilands forceps again. i wanted my baby out safely.

i also have a prolapse from the amount of tugging the Dr did with the forceps, he was almost pulling me off the table according to dh.

Strix · 21/10/2010 09:15

But, the article is based on the premise that if more doctors were better trained in forceps then fewer cases would opt for caesarean. So, there must still be a choice. Perhaps, the choice is being made before the baby's head is in the canal?

However, I think this point argues the case for a caesarean before the baby is so far in there isn't a choice.

And, whether or not a c-section is "major surgery" and is in fact less safe for EITHER baby or mother is matter well open to debate. It is not an idisputable fact that c-sections are more dangerous to either. But, I don't really want this thread to turn into a vaginal vs. section debate as I am interested in whether women generally prefer forceps to a section. As always, i suspect the driving force behind this believe is the NHS budget and not the mother's or the baby's health.

OP posts:
thirtysomething · 21/10/2010 09:24

I'm against forceps as DD had huge dent as they both turned her and yanked her out with them. She had terrible colic which the cranial osteopath believed was linked to forceps. She had a problem with the tube in her ear which led to numerous ear infections and then hearing and speech issues, which at the age of 10 we are still trying to remedy through speech therapy etc, and which have also had a huge impact on her schoolwork. Again the audiologist now thinks this was linked to forceps. Also, she has concentration issues. Which the ed psych has suggested might be linked to the compression of the skull inflicted by the forceps.

It took me until she was 5 to fully recover from the mess the forceps made of my body. And when I complained to the hospital and asked to go through my notes it was clear that they messed up - as DD was back to back and labour stalled for a long time they have since admitted I should have had a CS. They were very short-staffed that night and left me on my own for long periods. Hence not making the right decisions at the right times. So all in all I am very opposed to forceps. Plus neither me nor DH gave consent - in fact I said absolutely no way - yet my notes said I gave verbal consent!!!

ayjayjay · 21/10/2010 09:33

I certainly wouldn't have preferred a forceps birth to a cs. I even had it in my birth plan that I would rather have a cs than forceps. One of my biggest fears was having to have an episiotomy and forceps.

In the end I had to have an EMCS when labour didn't progress and DD experienced difficulties. I know cs is perceived as being major abdominal surgery but I can honestly say I found recovery a minor inconvenience at most. I was up after 24 hours and apart from a bit of soreness was fit and able to do pretty much whatever I wanted by day 3. I can honestly say that if I had to be cut open I'd prefer the stitches where I have them then on my fanjo.

I appreciate this is only my personal opinion though and not backed by medical evidence and that others may feel differently

ScroobiousPip · 21/10/2010 09:37

Without your consent thirtysomething! That's awful. I'm so sorry.

I personally felt that the risks of 'minor' injuries (but impacting significantly of quality of life) with forceps were not something that I was prepared to accept. I was lucky in the end that I had a fantastic MW-led HB but leading up to it I was very clear that I would not consent to either induction or forceps birth. The obstetrician wasn't happy but I stood over him and made him write it on my file before I left that I would not consent to either procedure so that it was there for future reference. I didn't trust the staff on the day to respect my decision otherwise.

We wouldn't accept this kind of treatment of our wishes for any other procedure or medical problem - for everything else, the principle of patient consent and choice is deeply engrained. Why isn't it so for giving birth? Why do so many of us feel that we are expected to simply put ourselves in the hands of the 'all-knowing' medical profession?

bigstripeytiger · 21/10/2010 09:43

Personally if I had to make a decision prior to being in labour I would rather have a CS than forceps, though I do know people who didnt mind the prospect of a forceps delivery but were very frightened of a CS.

If you are actually in labour and the baby is far down enough for a low forceps delivery, then at that point forceps is safer for the baby than a CS.

twirlymum · 21/10/2010 09:44

I was born by forceps delivery.
I had repeated ear problems when younger (almost continuous glue ear, despite two lots of grommets and Goodes tubes). A consultant at Guy's ENT told my mum this was very likely to have been caused by the forceps damaging nerves etc.
I now have a severe perforation of one eardrum, and hearing loss.
I also have a wonky head. Sounds funny, but trying to buy a pair of sunglasses that look ok with my wonky ears is a nightmare! Am usually left with one eyebrow showing above the frames, which gives me a slightly quizzical look Confused

DuelingFanjo · 21/10/2010 09:47

are forceps more likely to be used in births where epidurals have been given?

prh47bridge · 21/10/2010 10:03

Regarding the relative levels of safety...

Figures from the NHS suggest that c-section carries three times the risk of death for the mother compared to vaginal delivery. However, this direct comparison may be misleading. C-section is often used in situations where the mother is already at risk. More detailed studies suggest the differences in mortality rates are small but that c-section is more risky for the mother. C-section, of course, has the usual risks of post-operative problems associated with abdominal surgery. The risks are higher for emergency c-sections where, for example, the mother's stomach may not be empty when anaesthesia is applied. There is also evidence that multiple c-sections leads to an increased risk of problems with later pregnancies.

Babies delivered by c-section are more likely to have breathing problems, less likely to successfully breast feed and are 20% more likely to develop type 1 diabetes than babies born vaginally.

Bumpsadaisie · 21/10/2010 10:03

I certainly did - had epidural and forceps were the last option before CS.

I just really didnt fancy trying to BF and deal with newborn after major surgery. Also wanted to be able to go home from hospital quickly.

My episiotomy was fine and healed quickly - no more ill effects than for other women who tore naturally. I was pretty much back to normal within 3 weeks and started eg having sex again.

I know some people have awful experiences with forceps and episiotomies, but mine was fine. I was scared of the forceps before hand in NCT classes, but when push came to shove (pun!) they were great - it was great to feel DD coming out and have a bit of help after 3.5 hours of pushing!

Bumpsadaisie · 21/10/2010 10:07

PS

Apart from a bruise around her face which cleared up by day 2, DD seems to have been absolutely fine too.

Mind you it was very gentle - no yanking or twisting, they just used them to add a bit of traction as I pushed - really to help me as I was getting v exhausted. And it was only 2 pushes/pulls with them and she was out. So perhaps this was a mild forceps experience; it certainly wasn't many minutes of tugging and yanking.

And I had a lovely Registrar who used them and did a lovely stitch up job!

MummyB2010 · 21/10/2010 10:08

I was born by forceps delivery.

My mum was left struggling in 2nd stage for 5 hours even though it was clear no progress was being made.

When I went into severe distress, she signed the forms for a c-section, but in the end forceps was the quickest option for getting me out and most probably saved my life.

I still have VERY minor scaring on one side of my forehead (you wouldn't notice if it's not pointed out) but no other ill effects. & at the end of the day we're both here to tell the tale.

IMO the problem was caused by a very badly managed 2nd stage of labour. If they had intervened sooner it would not have ended up in a major emergency.

I am now 2 days overdue with my first baby and wanting to avoid the experience my mum had. But at the end of the day, I will take advice from the professionals about what is best for the health of me and my baby.

PortoFangO · 21/10/2010 10:09

I was given the choice between the 2 - and went straight for the CS!

MarineIguana · 21/10/2010 10:15

I was booked in for a CS (after previous stalled labour, CS and big baby) but went into labour early and was asked if I wanted to try a natural delivery. "If it gets stuck we'll just use forceps!" I chose the CS. I'm scared of forceps and not just for myself. At least CS is highly unlikely to harm the baby, and as I'd had a CS before and it was fine, I was happier with that.

I did see a very sad horror story about a healthy baby who died after being damaged by a forceps delivery - at my hospital. I didn't see it until after the birth and I was so glad I'd had the CS.

Strix · 21/10/2010 11:19

Prh47bridge,

I'm afraid several of the points made in your post are at best misleading.

"Figures from the NHS suggest that c-section carries three times the risk of death for the mother compared to vaginal delivery. However, this direct comparison may be misleading. C-section is often used in situations where the mother is already at risk. More detailed studies suggest the differences in mortality rates are small but that c-section is more risky for the mother."

These statistics are flawed because when a vaginal birth goes wrong and a section saves tone or two lives, they put everything that went wrong into the c-section statistics. Those statistics belong in a failed vaginal category. But, they are often quoted in association with the section. Theonly way to really determine the risks of a section is to perform elective sections and compare them to vaginal births where the babies were born at the exact same gestational age with mothers and fathers of the exact same medical history. I imagine this would be near impossible to organise.

"C-section, of course, has the usual risks of post-operative problems associated with abdominal surgery."

And vaginal birth, of course, has the usual risks of forcing something the size of a watermelon through a hole the size of a lemon. Things, stretch, tear, brake (coccyx, pelvic floor, etc.)... and the NHS is often nowhere to be found when you want them fixed later. Shock

"The risks are higher for emergency c-sections where, for example, the mother's stomach may not be empty when anaesthesia is applied."

Ah, an excellent reason for a nice planned elective one where this wil not be the case. However, even with my planned vaginal birth, follwed by induction, followed be fetal distress, and then a crash section at 3am a day and a half later I was instructed not to eat or drink just in case. They fed DH cups of tea whist I siffered. But, then, when I was knocked out cold for the section I decided there precaution was after all a wise policy.

"There is also evidence that multiple c-sections leads to an increased risk of problems with later pregnancies."

I think you have to have quite a lot of sections for this to be a problem. I know people who have had 5 or 6 and are fine. But, I do agree on this point that lots are a bit risky. I am headed for section number 3 in December and am doing fine. The consultant expressed no concern about a 3rd section.

"Babies delivered by c-section are more likely to have breathing problems, less likely to successfully breast feed and are 20% more likely to develop type 1 diabetes than babies born vaginally."

breathing problems: there is a correlation here but not a cause and effect. Section babies are typically born earlier. And breathing difficulties may be a result of whatever caused the section rather than the section itself. And it may be because section babies are typically born earlier. Even so, breathing difficulties are usually very minor... so minor they don't do anything. One explanation is that a vaginal birth baby is squeezed so hard through the birth canal that it squeezes any mucus out of the lungs. However, this squeezing also causes things like intracranial hemorrhages as a result of the plates of the skull being squeezed so hard that they overlap. I think I prefer the risk of minor breathing difficulties, personally.

Breast feeding: I have heard/read quite a few credible sources who say this is just plain not true. I think it might be delayed a day or so since your body didn't receive the rush of hormones that it receives in spontaneous labour. But, within a day or two a section body has caught up and produces milk just fine.

Diabetes: I wonder if this is because mothers with diabetes give birth by caesarean. So of course babies born by caesarean are more likely to have diabetes because they are more likely to have diabetic mothers.

I hope I have established that whether or not a casarean is more dangerous or safer than vaginal birth is a matter of great debate and not a foregone conclusion.

Now, can we return to the issue of forceps vs. caesarean?

OP posts:
kitstwins · 21/10/2010 12:35

But forceps can be used during a caesarean. I didn't know this either until they were used on me with great force during my emergency section. I was 'out' under GA so I think the surgeon felt able to use a good degree of force. The result wasn't great - haematomas, badly bruised pubic bone (with haematoma - I couldn't lie on my front without pain for over a year), pelvic floor absolutely hammered and absent. It was horrendous.

I'm pregnant again and am DESPERATE to avoid a c section this time. Mine was brutal, horrifying and left me with severe PND/PTSD. So if it came to it this time and a surgeon was waving either a scalpel for section or a pair of forceps at me God know's what I'd choose. If I could guarantee it would be a 'good' caesarean then obviously I'd swerve the forceps, but I think it's worth making the point that some sections can be damaging and physically brutal.

My friend went for forceps instead of a caesarean and has no regrets - the damage was fairly contained. Certainly she was up and about and healed and recovered weeks before I was.

Highlander · 21/10/2010 13:30

NO WAY!!!!!!

I had CSs to avoid instrumental deliveries and all the pelvic floor trauma that would entail.

TheMulledBloodsOnMe · 21/10/2010 13:42

There is no way I would choose an instrumental delivery over a EMCS. I have had the latter and I would feel much safer having an EMCS then an instrumental. The idea terrifies me.

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