Does this Miriam Stoppard comment annoy anyone else?!

[chloemack]

I found this exert from the latest Miriam Stoppard book made me really cross! She say:
''Few labours are painless but stories about suffering in labour are often exaggerated & distorted. The amount of pain felt almost always has a strong relationship to what is expected''
My labour hurt like hell, no silly exaggerations or distortions there! My first baby I had gone in completely relaxed expecting it to hurt but to be able to cope really well, little did I know! I'm not saying this is the same for everyone but I feel her comments are quite patrionising not to mention innacurate.

You never know these days nbee84

Maybe if we all want something to happen hard enough it will happen!

I am clearly far too optimistic.

Well, she's 63 - she won't be having a baby any time soon. She's got two boys as well. I do think her books are pretty thin tbh, I had her one on toddlers which I picked up in a charity shop, and it went back there shortly after. She seemed very focused on stuff to have, rather than relationships.

There's an element of truth I think - I'm sure she's right that fear can make the pain worse. But for God's sake, that doesn't make the pain exaggerated, pain is what you feel! The time between my waters breaking and the contractions really getting going was the most joyous period of my life, I couldn't WAIT not to be pregnant any more, and I was so happy and excited. Didn't stop it hurting considerably more than buggery though.

She isn't saying that it isn't painful. She is saying that 'suffering' is sometimes exaggerated, and I would agree with that.

Labour is quite a unique pain - it's not like breaking an arm, it's more of a journey, certainly for me in my 3 homebirths it was much more about a developing intensity of experience. I don't think it is helpful to 'frighten' women about how painful it might or might not be.

So I would reiterate, my labours WERE painful, but I wouldn't talk about them in terms of 'suffering'. And my babies were huge - between 9lb12 and 10lb12.

What a load of tosh! Gave birth to DC1 last week. Had intended to do the whole hypnobirthing/water birth/active birth/ visualisation thing in the MW led unit. I was very prepared, focused, positive and really up for it! HA!!!! I was MASSIVELY shocked at the excruciating agony of it all and that all my techniques for coping were utterly useless. I had no idea that it was possible to be in that much pain and not at the very least lose consciousness. Water didn't help. Gas and air didn't help. And as for breathing? Not a chance! Ended up having an epidural, which was an absolute God-send. So, no Miriam, my recollection of the pain is not exaggerated. And, no, my experience on the day was not connected to what I was expecting to happen. Dozy patronising cow.

Stoppard is a patronizing dolt...not half an hour ago was I complaining to my boyfriend about her book. She was talking about premature birth and lauding the nurse in the neonatal high dependency unit for explaining to a distressed mother that "her love was more important for the babys survival than all the technology that they could offer". Fuck off Myriam! Dioes that mean all the mothers whose prem babies died before eg incubators were invented didn't love them enough?
It really pisses me off the patronizing shit that professionals come out with to reassure people...surely that can be left to our Nan's??

WOW chocho!! What a great guilt trip to lay on a mum of a prem newborn . Staggering.... No wonder Tom came to his senses and gave her the heave-ho.

LilyBolero, you say that it isn't helpful to 'frighten' women about how painful it might be. I don't think any rational person wants to frighten pregnant women but it is realistic to prepare them for labour/delivery. Because yes, they might be lucky like you and manage homebirths and it feel intense more than painful and they might be able to talk about it in rational terms. But they might not.

I went into a planned home waterbirth the expert on natal hypnotherapy. I could outbreathe a Tibetan monk. My pregnancy thrived on a diet of Ina May and Grantly-Read. I knew how to labour. I was prepared. I was not frightened.

Well it was disgustingly bad. I have struggled with ptsd ever since. The pain was unmanageable. I was out of control. I wanted to die. Now I had a malpositioned baby that wasn't discovered until I had an em cs which accounts for the level of pain but malposition is a matter of luck.

I don't describe labour in detail to pregnant women. I don't use loaded terms. But I do think that educating them about how it might be in a gentle way and then suggesting how they might cope with that and the options available is much better than dismissing the real experiences of many women. Sheila Kitzinger manages this brilliantly. It might be bloody awful but here's what you could try if it is...

I know that a lot of women who are traumatised by birth say that it's the difference between expectation and reality that was the problem. They felt that they had failed because so many women said 'well I managed and it wasn't really painful, don't worry' and then they didn't manage and felt like they were a failure as a woman.

Fear does make pain worse. Of course it does. Some people exaggerate their birth experiences. Of course, in both directions.

Women should be prepared and encouraged and assured that the majority of labours are manageable. But dismissing the very real experiences of many women, particularly when comparing them to your own happy experiences is horrid. It's basically calling a traumatised woman a liar. Nice.

Oops. Lily, sounds like my rant was aimed at you. It wasn't, it was aimed at Madame Stoppard. Was just addressing your point in the first paragraph about frightening pregnant women.

I might find it an upsetting generalisation, too. I went into my first labour thinking it was just a matter of attitude, I'd be fine, I am good at pain management. No big deal if you just have the right attitude.....

Hahahahahahaha (With 4 labours under her belt, Ragged wipes a tear away from her eyes and crawls off to cower and snivel rhythmatically in a dark corner at the thought of ever going thru childbirth again ....)

ShowofHands - I do understand what you mean, I think I was thinking that the Eastenders style of birth isn't helpful - you know the sort where you are screaming in agony from the first contraction etc, and I think sometimes people feel 'that's what you do' in labour, and it doesn't help because actually keeping calm will allow the body's endorphins to kick in naturally. And if you are expecting it to be torture, you will feel afraid at the first twinge, and become more tense which will inhibit both the birth and the natural pain relievers, and perhaps make you less likely to be active during the birth.

That said, I know some labours ARE hideously painful - ds1 did shock me because it was very badly handled by the student midwive who decided, having gone in for induction, that induced was what I would be, despite being in early labour. I reached transition before she would even admit that I might be in labour and let me down to delivery, and I do remember the utter PANIC in my mind, as I just felt so out of control, and because of her refusal to admit this was labour, thought there was NO WAY I could do that level of intensity and pain for another 10-12 hours, so I had an epidural. I think if someone had said "when you feel really out of control and like the contractions are on top of each other, that means you're near the end of the last stage", that would have helped a lot. As it turned out, ds1 was OP, and we then had a huge palaver with fetal blood tests, fetal distress etc, and I do wonder if that was because his birth was delayed a bit by the epidural.

Where I think people ARE misled about the difficulties/pain is in breastfeeding. The 'party line' is that it is really easy, is the easiest way to feed your baby...and then you really do feel like a failure if your baby won't feed, and because potential problems aren't admitted, solutions aren't offered so readily, and I'm sure this increases the rates of women giving up breast feeding very quickly.

Grrrr! I DID NOT over-egg the total fucking agony I experienced at being fully dilated and ready to push for over 3 hours with an undiagnosed breech baby (and eventual emcs). I did my level best to remain as calm as poss, but jeez woman!

Miriam, you are a twat

I think it's more honest to say that some women find labour absolutely agonising and shocking, but this doesn't always result in birth trauma or in a lack of satisfaction with the experience of childbirth.

I think birth trauma is probably usually more likely to grow out of a feeling of intense fear during labour - where ever that comes from, from poor or insensitive care, and/or from ending up with a poorly baby/severe birth injuries.

"more likely to grow out of a feeling of intense fear during labour" - sorry, in relation to the OP, I can see how if labour was vastly more painful than you were expecting it could result in you feeling very fearful - with a sense that there must be something wrong, because surely it's not supposed to be that painful?!

Miriam Stoppard is a nutter

Every decent childbirth/parenting book/site I've read has her in the GF/TH/Annabel "I call my husband Daddy" Karmel camp of Utter Loons.

She advocates building rocket ships out of fishfingers and peas to make toddlers eat and everything

What, Is MS STILL writing Childbirth books, she must be about 103 by now.

Cardamomginger: poor you having such a painful first labour. Mine was the same - if someone had given me a gun I would have shot myself to be free of the excruciating agony. I too had an epidural in the end. I can happily tell you that DS2's birth was completely different - still very painful but totally manageable because it was "proper" classic labour pains described in all the books with each contraction rising, peaking and fading properly (unlike with DS1 who was wham, bam, wham, bam, AAAARRGHHH, for bloody hours on end with same level of intensity of contractions i.e. no bloody troughs - just constant peaks!!!) I got through my "normal" labour pain with DS2 with breathing and visualisation and gas and air and I never once felt that I couldn't cope. Textbook labour pains and labour. Hopefully any more you have will be like that too.

All labours ARE different - there is pain and then there is PAIN!!!!!

Good to know curly - sorry you had a rubbish time of it too . DC1 is 2 weeks old today and I've just about stopped gibbering.... although that could be down to the sleep deprivation !

cardamom, my labour with DD was similar, I did hypnobirthing and practised for months , I got really good at the breathing and could relax my whole body really quickly... but I ended up having a really long labour and needed the drugs! I felt a bit traumatised afterwards too, not helped by a hypnobirthing fan that told me it was my fault for not practising enough Hello, PND.

Congrats on your new DC, have lots of cuddles and cake and put your feet up!

Eaurouge - what a load of BS!! How dare she say you didn't practice enough !! I think we can prepare and plan and practice and do our utmost to ensure the outcome and experience we want it to be. But, essentially you get given the birth you get given and you have to deal with how the cards fall on the day. And that's that! None of what happened was my fault - none of it was your fault. So sorry you ended up with PND and hope things are better for you now. XX

Yeah, things are much better now thanks I still get a bit upset when I read things about drug-free births and how it's all in the mind but I've mostly come to terms with it. Good thing too, I've got to do it all over again in a few months!

There was a thread about drug-free and natural births and how luck plays a part last week, well worth a read.

GOOD LUCK!! XXX

Miriam Stoppard is a twat.

One of her books recommends having a sink fitted in the baby's nursery. Yes, Miriam, we are all made of money.

stoppard clearly belongs to the school of thought that ignores birth plans, denies epidurals untill its "too late" and tells labouring mums to "calm down" (weve all watched "one born every minute" I bet)!

Silly mare--- nobody gets PTSD because they "exagerated" what happened.

I had a lovely obstetrician , Ms Osgood of St Mary's in Portsmouth, who c sectiond me a month early to a 44 week weight baby, so I was lucky to experience nil trauma.

Maybe if men gave birth we would see an end to the way labouring women are often treated as nothing more that featureless baby producing meat?

I mean- its perfectly "natural" to suffer pain from a broken femur but nobody's suggesting setting such without pain relief?

I can't stand the woman. I expect that any quote of hers is generally inaccurate or offensive it just plain silly.

However, I have some sympathy with the notion that if you expect a painful birth you will experience a painful birth and having listened to some friends' birth stories get progressively worse with each telling I agree that some of the stories at the very least are exaggerated.

she is 70 odd and has been churning out the same stuff for years. my mum tells me she was being an idiot 35 years ago