3 deg tear with 1st means c-sec with 2nd baby?

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Hi

I really need some help as am desperate for a vaginal birth with baby no 2.

is there any mum out there who had a 3 or 4 degree tear with first baby and then had a better experience and did not tear as much with baby no 2?

I had a midline epis as well as forceps and epidural and have healed well and no pain and no incontinence issues - spinchter muscles tests are okay too

I am worried about the scar tissue inside and also the scar line from the fenton's procedure which was to bring both sides of the tear together neatly

if this scar tissue will tear with baby no 2

baby no 1 was 8 1/2 pounds and am wondering if baby no 2 will be larger?

i think I may have had a back to back labour but found out that it only took 3 contractions for the delivery by forceps so he was nearly out himself

I'm really curious to know if you can have a baby second time round and not tear as bad

help!

thanks

I agree Littlesilver, it's important to realise the downsides of elcs.

I had a 3rd degree tear with dd1 (mlu, loooong labour, even looooooooonger pushing stage, lots of standing, good positions etc, but baby stuck, went to labour ward, had episiotomy and ventouse, stitched up in theatre.)

because I didn't really have any issues afterwards, I had a vb with dd2 a year later.
Had a 2nd degree tear (mlu, meconium in waters, off to labour ward, induced, epidural, one push and she was out, stitched up - badly, by MW)

After dd2 I had problems in that if I needed to poo (sorry, if tmi!) I had to go pronto.

With ds (3 years later), I had several incontinence problems (ie uncontrollable wind and faecal incontinence). Consultant said I may need repair operation after having baby, but could still have vb. I opted for a csection, because I just couldn't bear the thought of further damage.

Ds was born by cs 6 weeks ago, the surgeon said that with his 99th centile head(!) it was likely I would have torn again.

I had a fairly bad time though, I was allergic to the pain meds, my bp crashed, operation had to be done with bed tilted to one side to stop me passing out, I lost tons of blood.

Although I was 39 weeks at the time, ds was born with premature lungs and had respiritory distress syndrome, jaundice and a heart murmur, he had to go to scbu 5 hours after being born. I was too sick to cuddle him, and then didn't get to cuddle him for 3 days, whilst he was in an incubator. He was in for 8 days, and although now he is doing well, he had a really rocky start and lost a lot of weight. I breastfed for 5 weeks, but gave up because I got really ill with mastitis and thrush, and ds was failing to gain weight.

I have just started to feel a bit more human again, but my scar is pretty big and very wonky. I got an infection in the scar 4 weeks after, because I walked into town, which was too much. Dh had to take 2 weeks off work after his paternity leave was over, to look after our dds (3 and 4)).

I think a lot of people have a good experience of elcs, but it can be hard.

I keep feeling huge waves of guilt about having an elcs, and the effect that it had on ds. I did it because I was so worried about having double incontinence in the future, but I just hate to think of ds having been born when he just wasn't ready.

3rd degree tears do not exclude a vb afterwards.

The stats are for a subsequent vb (after a 3rd degree tear) 75% go on to have a 'good or better' 2nd labour (which means no repeat of 3rd degree tear)
Of the 25% who do tear to the same degree or worse, 75% go on to have a 'good or better' surgical repair.

However, what these stats do not take into account are urinary and bowel incontinence issues in later life. The majority of issues post menopause are as a result of childbirth.

However, you have had the tests, all looks good so yes you could have a successful vb. My consultant said the obstetric advice has started to veer towards ELCS in the 4 years between my 2nd and third child. Her particular concerns would be if the baby presented with an arm up by their head/awkward positioning meant rupture would be more likely due to the inherent weakness and to think long term i.e. to post menopause.

My second delivery was a vb - had an epidural, very controlled, very minor tear - baby was larger at 8lb 10 but easier to deliver. My third was an elective as there is no doubt over time muscles had weakened and tests showed there had been damage caused with birth no 1 not spotted earlier - but yours are all clear.

Not sure if this helps but have researched a lot!

I was birthing partner to my friend a couple of months ago, she had a 3rd degree tear with her first dc and was offered an elcs with her second. She decided to go for a normal delivery and it paid off!!

She was warned beforehand that she would have to listen carefully to the midwives when she was pushing and only push when told to. She did brilliantly and (mainly) listened the whole time. She didn't need a single stitch and was out of hospital the next morning.

Of course it helped having me there reiterating what the midwives were saying, sometimes it's easier to follow instructions from someone you know. So if you do decide to go for a vaginal birth i would have a long discussion with your midwife and birthing partner about the best way to coach you through it. Good luck

Ragdollismyname that's a great experience and the one I so hope I could have but it's so terrifying trying to decide as both carry such risks. What was her baby's size and was he/she in a face down position?

Hazyjane it sounds like a terrible ordeal you have been through but thank goodness you and your baby are through the worst. It's so hard to not feel feelings of guilt I think as mothers we're hard wired to feel guilt over our actions.

bad 3rd degree dd1 and vlood transfusion. unplanned home birth dd2 and graze......

Oh I shouldn't really read these threads...

I spent ages debating whether to have a elcs with dd2 after third degree with dd1. Didn't help that my consultant and midwife basically said that I should go for a vaginal birth and I had to argue very hard with them to agree to a elcs. In the end I decided to try for a vaginal birth, in the end I decided that I couldn't be that unlucky to have a third degree tear again.
Went on to have a second degree tear which has healed well.

But... I do worry about my health long term. Don't have any incontinent issues now but of course this could all change.

It's a horrible decision to have to make. If I could turn the clock back I'd have an elcs with first dd to prevent all the damage.

your right xboxwife it really is an awful thing to decide over. I can't sleep at the mo as I'm thinking about it all the time not to mention the fact it's brought back all the trauma feelings I had following DD1's birth as I keep replaying that in my mind too!

If there's a third degree tear and any issues with incontinence (which can include uncontrolled passing of wind or a dash to the loo as you can't hold on) then an ELCS is the way to go IME, as subsequent births will weaken muscles simply by virtue of pushing, whether you tear or not again.

I really didn't want to have another child after the trauma of my first birth and only agreed to it after getting a guarantee that I would have an elcs. First time around I had a 36 hour labour, 3rd degree tear and episiotomy, failed ventouse and then forceps and surgery later to repair damage.

My Ob/gyn (medical system here different to UK) agreed immediately even though he works from a primarily midwife led and extremely pro all natural birth hospital.

I ended up going into labour the weekend before my surgery date and my ob/gyn was away. I had an amazing midwife take care of me (I arrived in the early hours of the morning) and she promised me that she would call the team in as soon as I was ready for them but suggested I try to labour.

Amazingly some strange primal urge overtook and I ran up and down the stairs, took an amazing shower and then dropped on the floor (on a mat she had considerately placed on the floor - we weren't even in a delivery suite and hadn't had any internals at all at this stage). Four pushes (and four hours after arriving) DD was born. I had a second degree tear. DD1 was 7.12 and DD2 was 7.8.

sorry for late reply dotty. My friends babies were both the same size 6lb 5oz so only small babies really. I must admit that i thought she was mad going for a vaginal delivery and personally i would have got for the c-sec. Even the consultant was v surprised that she went for a normal delivery.
The downside was that she had to lie on the bed in a fixed position to give birth while a midwife literally held her skin together to prevent it tearing.
Good luck making your decision and with the birth!!! x
oh forgot to say, both babies were in a face down position.

Hi ragdolismyname thanks for replying. Well done to that midwife who kept her together, gosh I didn't know that was possible. My first baby was 8lb9, kinda leading me to think this one maywell be bigger!

Dinahrod I had a 3rd degree tear but have had no problems lond term. For 2 months after the birth I suffered with urgency to go for a 'poo' (sorry TMI!) but after a course of physio for 4 months post birth that went and my pelvic floor has been fine since.

hello OP.

I have a nearly 5 week old DS2 who was born vaginally - ended up with a 2nd degree tear, hardly any bleeding and I didn't actually feel the pain.

With DS1 I had a 3rd degree tear and it was VERY painful - I still remember it. Infact I said to the MW after DS2 was born that I was relieved it was only a 2nd degree tear because I remember how painful the 3rd degree tear was and how traumatic it was.

I wouldn't necessarily say you need to go for a CS next time round - I considered it but decided to go for a vaginal birth because the healing time is less.

I do think it is important to consider whether you will want any further children as well. I was fine after dd1, 2nd degree tear after dd2 and healed ok, with only minor problems after, but with ds, pregnancy was awful, I felt as though I hardly had any control over wind, and as though I would never get to the toilet in time to have a poo (and a few, horrible times didn't). The strain of a 3rd pregnancy on my damaged bits and pieces, was just too much, and has been pointed out previously, the effects can wait until after the menopause to become apparent, the Mws and consultants don't seem to pay much attention to the long term effects.