Talk to me about vaginal breech deliveries...

[2plus2more]

What's the chat? Anyone had one? How different/more difficult is it than a vaginal ceph birth?

don't know much about them - try googling Mark Cronk.

duh - that should have read Mary Cronk.

Start here :)

DD1 (DC1) was born as a vaginal breech birth. In order to ensure we had MWs who were confident and competent in breech births we used IMs. I quite enjoyed giving birth to all 9lb 12 of her, and the whole crowning malarky with DD2 (cephalic, about 6lb 4) was a very unpleasant surprise!

We also found "Breech Birth" by Benna Waites and "Breech Birth: What are my options" by Jane Evans to be very informative.

After doing a lot of reading, including the Term Breech Trail (available for free on the Lancet's site) and various reviews, we concluded that vaginal breech birth is not intrinsically more dangerous than CS - but vaginal breech birth with HCP's without much breech experience increases the risks. And that was why we went with IMs - now CS is recommended the number of NHS MWs with breech skills is reducing fast. We were also very keen to have a breech birth and not a delivery - which was all the registrar was grudgingly prepared to offer.

In that sense breech birth is a LOT more difficult than vaginal birth. Sadly, much of the NHS is not supportive of the concept and so you may well have a fight on your hands just to persuade them that you are going ahead with a vaginal breech birth as Plan A.

Good luck making your decision - its not at all easy and there is no universal right answer. If you've any questions about my experience feel free to ask :)

What Tangle said!

Mary Cronk article Hands Off the Breech I've been to one of her study days. She's amazing.

I was just going to start a thread about this! How far along are you 2plus2more? I am facing a potential breech birth. DS2 has been breech for 8 weeks or so now (31 weeks) and whilst I'm doing all I can to help him turn, I need to be prepared for that not happening. DS1 was also breech, had a successful ECV at 38 weeks but I'd be very lucky to have a 2nd successful ECV.

We were planning a homebirth- can't afford an IM so will have to go to hospital if he's still breech at term. We've broached the subject of breech birth (as opposed to delivery/ extraction) with the hospital, one MW was very reassuring- said 'Well it's not rocket science, you just don't do anything'.

I've read the Mary Cronk article and am going to check out those books, thanks Tangle.

I'm 33 weeks. Added complication is that I am having twins. Twin 1 is currently the one that is breech while Twin 2 (the one that doesn't actually matter!) is ceph! The consultants are keen for a CS if Twin 1 doesn't shift it, but the consultant midwife is supportive of my plans for a natural delivery even if one or both are breech. To be honest the consultants would rather I had a CS regardless of positions, so with no.1 being breech I'll have an even bigger fight on my hands! The whole process is likely to be much more medicalised than a normal singleton birth, although we are pushing for it to be as un-medicalised as possible! Obviously the biggest concern with Twin 1 being breech is that we also have to consider the health and safety of Twin 2. I have read some Mary Cronk articles and also looked into the Term Breech Trial so that I can speak as knowledgeably as possible when I next see the docs, but I'd love some personal experiences too!

Have you come across Mary Cronk's Twin Guidelines? Her "phrasebook" is also very useful

All I can suggest is asking for the statistics and research to back up any recommendation that is made. Its amazing how poorly grounded a lot of recommendations can be :(

Good luck to both of you :)

That's really useful, thanks Tangle.

Would love to hear some personal experiences too. Will bump later.

It's really good that you have a supportive cons MW, it makes a huge difference when you don't have to fight everyone.

Have just had a look at the NHS website to see what they say about having a breech baby. They recommend either a CS or an epidural and managed birth

ooh - thanks for that Tangle! Phrasebook is ace - might just use some of those!

I had a vaginal breech delivery, simply because DD popped out too fast to get me to theatre for a C section.

It was my first DC so I've got nothing to compare it with, but it seemed incredibly straightforward...

I dream of a baby that just pops out- last was was OP and took forever. Hmm, maybe I'd be better leaving this one where he is..

Bump.

Have hope Hairy! My 1st was also OP and also took forever. Lots of intervention and I was just minutes away from a CS when he was finally born with the aid of forceps. My 2nd on the other hand pretty much did just pop out! Total labour from start to finish was about 5 hours and of those 5 hours only the last 2 hours or so were actually uncomfortable enough to be labour as far as I was concerned. My waters broke and baby crowned while we were still in the hospital carpark, I was rushed down to a delivery suite and 2 minutes/3 little pushes later and she was out! A cinch - seriously!

Oh, that sounds more like it! People keep telling me number 2 will be loads easier- well only if he decides to turn around.

Going to the chiropracter on thurs to see what they can do.

Have you looked at the Spinning babies techniques for Twins?
www.spinningbabies.com/techniques/in-pregnancy/twin-pregnancy
I used Rebozo and inversion with my recent twin client right up to labour (at 40+4) both twins were head down for birth, but she had agreement from the staff to have the babies in a midwife led unit, hands off, even if twin 2 was breech (not sure what would have happebed if twin 1 was breech)
Selina

So both twins are now breech BUT - consultant was actually pretty supportive today when I said I wanted to try for a natural delivery regardless which is very positive! I definitely think the fact that I was able to speak knowledgeably and even just me using terms like "footling/frank breech" helped as I wasn't coming across as someone who just wanted her own way, but rather as someone who actually knew a bit about what she was talking about! To be honest, if we can get a breech delivery I'll be happy. Obviously a breech birth would be better, but considering the potential difficulties with all twin births anyway, anything that avoids a CS is good news in my book, even if it is more medicalised than I'd like!

Anymore news on your little one Hairy?

Oh, like the sound of your consultant! If you've got their support you're onto a winner. It definitely helps if you've done your research.

Well, last wednesday night I felt some huge movements, went to the MW thurs am and he'd started to turn round! Was transverse rather than breech for the first time in aaages. He's turned back but at least he's trying! DS1 never tried to turn so that gives me hope that the stuff I'm doing is making a bit of a difference. Chiropracter starts treatment tomorrow so we'll see what that does. If he's still breech in 2 weeks I'm going for moxibustion too- I'm throwing everything at this!

I think that as long as he's vertex, I don't even mind if he's posterior.I'll try to get him in a good position but I'll be happy with heads down. Even if he's bum first I'll have a go at vaginal delivery but would have to be in hospital as we can't afford an independant MW.

MW at the hospital recommended moxibustion btw, she studied it for her finals. She said around 34 weeks was the best time, might be worth a go?