Very worried about 10-year-old's intrusive thoughts

[HotToast]

I posted this, then think I accidentally deleted it – not sure, sorry, am useless! So posting it again here:

I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice/thoughts/reassurance about a developing situation I have with my 10-year-old DS that is starting to really worry me. He is quite a sensitive child and has always had a bit of a disproportionate fear of getting into trouble (I must stress, although I am firm, I am certainly not an ogre; his dad and I are super loving parents so this fear of getting into trouble isn't coming from us being disciplinarians!!)

Recently, he has unfortunately started to become aware of swear words – he has a close friend who has a teenage brother, so I think things filter down from him in particular. The knowledge of these 'bad words' seems to really distress him and he has started to become more and more worried about accidentally saying one of these words at school, and what the consequences of that might be.

Things have really escalated this week, and he seems to be fixating on this issue to the point where this has become a loop of intrusive thoughts that he can't control and it's having a noticeable affect on his mental health. He is not his normal happy self, he seems subdued, and is constantly worrying and 'confessing' these thoughts to me. I have done a bit of reading up and see that this points to an anxiety disorder of some sort. To this end, I have contacted the school and reached out to an occupational therapist for advice.

In the meantime, I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with a child of this sort of age? And if so, how did it resolve/what helped? I am very alarmed and very worried about him.

I don’t have any experience of this in a child OP but I did have some intrusive thought issues myself in my early 20s.

How would you feel about sitting him down and letting him use the bad words? Telling him that while it’s not advisable to use them they are just words and you’d rather he said them than got so upset. Let him say them and shout them and talk about them to you. Tell him he’s allowed to use them?

Hopefully it would get them out of his system, demystify them a bit and make them feel less like a big, bad, terrible thing to avoid?

@GoldenCupsatHarvestTime Thank you. I definitely want to remove the idea that somehow something terrible will happen if he says one of these words! Simple reassurance doesn't seem to be helping. It's quite alarming when you feel a bit helpless and all the usual soothing doesn't help. I'm hoping some professional guidance will help us to nip this in the bud before it gets any worse. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this.

I think agree with letting him say them to show nothing bad will happen.

Try get some help quickly to try and nip it in the bud. OCD when it becomes entrenched is a bugger. My youngest is incapacitated by it ATM. To the point I'm having to feed, wash, dress and take him to the bog.

Caveat I'm not qualified in any way. Just sharing that we are exposed to foreign languages in our house and in the past I've taken the drama out of swear words by talking about how some words are so awful if you say them in some countries but not in others. Gets the curiosity flowing instead of focusing on that terrible impact of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. Also my son sometimes tries to force me to tell him the worst swear words I know in English and I make up funny sounds he loves it.

I've suffered ocd since I was 6 op. Im not diagnosing your son as im not qualified to but I recognise some of this behaviour in my younger self. All you can really do is offer him reassurance but he will move on to something else and then something else after. I waited 28 years to seek help, get him to the GP and ask for a child therapy referral and try and nip it in the bud now if possible. Best wishes to you all

We went through something similar actually, same age too. We’d modelled no swearing and the messaging was ‘don’t do it’ so I understand where the worry stems from. I had a conversation where I explained that the odd swear word when you get a bit older isn’t a bad thing, but explained we’d deterred him from it when he was young because it’s not appropriate. I said he could swear in the privacy of his own room and no harm would be done (I wouldn’t even know!) and I’ve also have ‘allowed’ him to swear on occasion too - for example he achieved something special he’d been working on for a year and I was taking a photo and he was forcing a smile, so I said, ‘come on! You can do better than that! Say ‘I did it! I fucking did it!’ And he was so shocked, but then broke out into the hugest grin, before saying it himself! I used it as an example of when it’s ‘ok’ to swear and we had a bit of fun with it. I think that really helped take the seriousness out of it. The words seemed to have less ‘power’ over him after that.

I have also explained that it’s normal to experiment with more adult themes and language as he gets older and it’s fine, but he needs to learn that there is a time and place. He knows school wouldn’t be impressed and I’ve also stressed that I don’t want to hear him swear AT someone, but other than that, if the odd word slips out, I’m not going to roast him over the coals.

I was curious whether he’d try and use it as an opportunity to swear, but he hasn’t. I think he’s sworn maybe twice since we had that conversation and both times it was in good humour and not out of frustration or anger. So the swearing floodgates have not been opened thankfully!

I understand why you are worried. Was it the SENCO you spoke to at school? Does he worry at school about making mistakes and being in trouble?
There’s been lots in the news about Tourette’s. Could this have added to his anxiety around swearing?
An OT wouldn’t be the right professional to deal with this problem. The SENCO is a good starting point and school could work on his anxiety and how it’s OK to make mistakes. Some schools have access to mental health support for pupils.
It’s not a good idea to try to “diagnose” him yourself. If it’s fairly recent it might be a passing phase linked to other anxiety.
One strategy to deal with negative automatic thoughts ( NATS) is to write them on post it notes, stick them on a wall or cork board and literally swat them with a fly swatter. You could also try a worry monster ( he might be too old for this)

Thanks all for your messages. Googling this evening has got me even more worried and the sudden onset of this has made me worried it could be this PANS/PANDAS thing, which I had never heard of until this evening, but now am really scared. Am going to call the GP in the morning.

Please let us know how you get on

This helped with the intrusive thoughts part of OCD for our child.

The image seems to be being reviewed.
The book is called Freeing your child from ocd by tamar chansky.

As a children's mental health professional for the last 15 years, I'd say don't worry about PANDAS. I've never met anyone with that in real life. Everyone who claimed to have it was just autistic and was somatising their emotions into their body. Speak to your schools MH lead and ask for a referral to CAMHS.

Id sit him down use a lot of them. Let.him use a load of them.
Eat some chocolate and tell him not to say it outside the house but its honestly not a big deal.
Absolutely zero will happen

His intrusive thoughts a re fear based. Nip it in the bud.

My daughter is willfully yet hates breakrules... we have worked with her on this since she was 2/ 2.5

I wouldnt be assuming its PANDAS or going g to a GP at this point. You are sending the message there is something wrong with your child.

@Burner69 Thank you, this is helpful to know. It can be hard to keep perspective when it's 11pm at night and you're in a fear spiral on Google. I'm not worried about PAN/PANDAS any more but I do think that a bit of support and early intervention is needed because this is really significantly affecting him and isn't something to ignore and hope it goes away.

I saw the GP just now; she wasn't massively helpful and tried to fob me off with a website because she said that CAHMS has a really long waiting list and they have quite a high threshold for referrals – like self-harm, etc. But I said I felt a website link wasn't enough and I wanted to see a person with some expertise, so apparently we're going to have an appointment with someone at their 'wellness centre' who is a bit more specialised. So we'll see what comes of that. @SalmonOnFinnCrisp I agree it needs to be nipped in the bed, but I don't know anything about anxiety or OCD, so I just need a bit of support and advice from a professional who can recommend some approved techniques to help, rather than just feeling my way in the dark. Hopefully we'll be able to access something.

Just in case my comment was on your deleted post, my DS9 was the same last year. School referred to cahms who closed the case without even speaking to me. I paid private for 3 sessions with a child psychologist which helped massively. We basically followed the points in this book ‘breaking free from child anxiety and OCD’ and it reduced his anxiety and intrusive thoughts massively (not completely, but much more manageable for him and in control) Can buy it on Amazon/Audible. Set a worry time slot and ask him to write his thoughts down to save for that time slot. The aim is to not keep accommodating him with reassurance, it makes things worse. Good luck

@maria127 great, thanks so much.

We had a similar thing at aged 10 with what my child described as being unable to stop negative thoughts and really he became really distressed to the point of self harm.
This is what helped us.
We talked to him about the thoughts being temporary as he was worried about they weren’t going to end. Also about many people who have these occasions in their lives and that you can learn to ride them like waves of the sea. I personally cope with doing something creative to let out the negativity feelings.
We talked about the brain has the emotional side and a logical thinking side and we need to sometimes get the logical side in control. There were a few key phrases that we gave the logical side that it could say to the emotional side to establish a positive internal monologue that reinforced perspective.
I would also make him understand that many good people get intrusive thoughts and they are liked to stress.
We then tried to get to the main cause which in our case was his confidence and self worth within his peer group at school, which we worked on as a family. When his stress levels peaked he really improved with some time away from his peers group at school.
This year he’s back to his old self. He still gets the same issues come up but is much better at dealing with them.
I spoke to a few of the parents at school and many were going through similar with their 10 year olds

@Useyourfork that's incredibly interesting, thank you. Yes, from what I've been reading there does seem to be anecdotal evidence to suggest this kind of thing is fairly common around this age. It think they go through quite a significant development stage in terms of brain development at around this age. Glad your techniques worked for your child and glad he is feeling better. I hope we'll be able to figure out a similar strategy.

I would keep googling to find a child psychologist or CBT/ERP therapist with experience in OCD/intrusive thoughts/anxiety and get sessions started as soon as possible.
I waited for CAMHS and 2 months later things completely escalated for my 9 yo, she’s no longer at school or functioning really.

Not saying this will be the trajectory for your DS at all - but this type of thinking often has a life of its own and just broadens out to encompass more and more worries.
I feel like 9/10 can be a tricky age for some sensitive kids.
Wishing you both the best, it’s so upsetting to see them unable to enjoy life but I do think it can be very treatable x

No probs, the author is Eli R. Lebowitz

@sweetpeaorchestra thank you, I have actually done just that today - I happen to know a very good educational psychologist who assessed my daughter for dyslexia and she also covers these issues. Have emailed her. 👍🏻

Has he had any recent infections that would make you consider PANDAS though, before you panic?

I agree with some pp, try and take the 'sting' out of swear words by helping him see nothing dreadful will happen if he says them. Given his anxiety, I don't think this wpuld open floodgates, just decatastrophise it for him.

theres some good self help books for kids and parents if you want to take a look while waiting for support if needed:

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/breaking-free-from-ocd-book-jo-derisley-9781843105749?sku=GOR006964294&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19545755187&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNiLjKGokwMVoYtQBh0VcjZrEAQYBiABEgKd6fD_BwE

As pp have said, CBT with exposure and response prevention is the best evidenced treatment. You might be able to access via mental health in schools team (MHST, accessed via school), though national coverage is patchy. There's likely to be a wait for CAMHS but worth a try via GP if no luck with MHST. In the interim, a few sessions with a private clinical psychologist and strategies at home would be worth it if he's really distressed. Good luck

I am sorry that you are going through this. And I certainly don't wish to seem like I am "blaming" you - however, I think that when our children are very unhappy it is always worth reflecting on whether there is anything wrle can do differently, rather than attributing it immediately to a mental health condition.

Your evidence for not being excessively strict is that you are also "super loving" - it's entirely possible to be both. Almost everyone loves their kids, it doesn't mean they get the balance of strictness/freedom right automatically.

It struck me that you said your 10 year old had "unfortunately started to become aware of swear words". I think 10 is really quite old to hear swear words for the first time - how did you react when he mentioned them? Were you initially very shocked/repressive?

I would also look at the school - what are they like in terms of discipline - excessively strict?

Currently, your son is scared of breaking social tabboos. I think it would be foolish not to consider whether aspects of his upbringing could be contributing to this fear.

Of course it COULD purely be something his anxiety has conjured. But if this happened to my daughter I would look at what I could change in the way I treat her first.

Good luck.

@Ilovelurchers I get where you are coming from, but a response to the way you've been parented doesn't suddenly manifest in symptoms like this. These are medical symptoms. What has triggered it I don't know, it may be multifactorial. As any mother would, I've been quick to look at whether I have done anything that could have contributed, but doing that is actually not helpful. Understanding others' similar experiences and seeking the right professional support is what I am trying to do.

@HotToast @Ilovelurchers
a response to the way you've been parented doesn't suddenly manifest in symptoms like this. These are medical symptoms.

This is literally my job. I see children every day with "medical symptoms" due to the way they have been parented. Don't rule it out so quickly, OP