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Intrusive thoughts - DD13

22 replies

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 11:15

Hello,

Looking for advice - I am in a state of panic which isn’t helping me to remain rational.

Tried so hard to keep this post small but it’s turned out to be massive, sorry.

DD is 13. Generally doing well in her wee life. In secondary school, small group of friends. Some issues in the group but I didn’t see this as being too significant. But want to mention anything that could be relevant. She is NT.

She has always been an anxious wee girl, would be described as a worrier I suppose. Can overthink things. Flip side of that is she achieves in school, loves learning, has always had friends, goes to extra curricular activities etc. Is pretty confident in so many ways…None of that has changed.

A few weeks back she mentioned that a couple of times a feeling of sadness has come over her but that it has passed. We chatted about it and as always I said to come and speak to me or her dad about anything at all.

Last week one day she had to come home from school because she felt dizzy. Someone fainted in school the day before and I wondered if that was a trigger. By coincidence someone fainted a few days later which made her anxious about fainting and lots of questions about that.

That night she was very anxious and said she was worried about death and dying.

The next night she was worried about things being real. Said she hated philosophy in school as it makes her question everything.

Since then we’ve had lots of worries - she speaks of a feeling coming over her. Called me one day in school and what she described to me was a panic attack. I spoke to her on the phone and she calmed down - I encouraged her to do a grounding exercise where you look at objects you can see, feel and then some box breathing (sorry if using wrong terminology!)

So for a week she just hasn’t been right. She’s describing what I think is anxiety based on my own experience.

Last night she told us that she’s worrying about suicide - she said she doesn’t want to hurt herself and doesn’t want to die. The opposite - she is scared she will hurt herself. I asked her if she is scared of becoming unwell mentally and she said yes. Says the word suicide has been coming in to her head at random points over the last week. That it happened once before In October but went away. It is scaring her and she wants it to go away. Yesterday she had a small disagreement with a friend and she said after that it’s all she could think about - suicide.

I am writing this quickly and trying not to make it too long - we have spent so much time talking over the last week, practicing different strategies to make her feel calm etc. Lots of cuddles and reassurance.

We’ve worked out that last month when she got the sad feeling and the thoughts she got her period 9 days later. And her period should be due fairly soon, although isn’t always regular so might not be! Again, may or may not be relevant but I don’t want to leave anything out.

Now for the background. I will summarise.

DD suffered a significant medical trauma when she was 5. Required brain surgery - a couple of very minor lasting physical damage affects.

She also has experienced two other medical emergencies - anaphylaxis. She has severe allergies and carries epipens. Her allergies can make her very anxious at times - trying new food was a big no for so long. This seems to have improved a little over the last 10 months or so.

In 2020 at the start of the pandemic she also experienced severe sleep anxiety - it was a very difficult few months of bed sharing, bed swapping, being up all night, lots of fears associated with bedtime, lots of tears. It was actually awful. So much better now - still doesn’t always feel settled at bedtime but on the whole she sleeps very well.

So…I think that’s everything.

I am terrified - she says she doesn’t want to hurt herself, she doesn’t want to die. She has gone to school, went to her club last night etc. But the word, and the thought keeps coming in to her head.

OP posts:
Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 11:20

Another big issue for her was starting secondary school without her main group of friends as they went to private school - was a huge shock at the time and very unexpected for most of them.

I am trying to think of everything in case it’s relevant.

I mean, it’s probably all relevant - so many changes, lots of medical trauma - people see her and see a walking miracle because of what happened, a wee girl who is thriving and doing well in all aspects of her life.

And that’s how we have viewed her too, while also recognising what she has been through is a lot and she has worries at times.

This last week though has really scared me, especially the mention of suicide.

For info, she said since hearing about Matt Perrys death it’s been worse.

OP posts:
Plexiglass · 05/12/2023 11:37

First of all, I'm so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. I've been going through a similar thing with DD14.

What you are describing sounds very like the intrusive thoughts which can happen with OCD. Your daughter may or may not also have "rituals" (e.g. the classic handwashing stuff which people think of in this context). It's possible to have OCD without noticeable rituals; this is sometimes called "pure O" OCD.

I highly recommend the website for OCD UK. They have a lot of useful information and you can see whether any of the descriptions ring a bell.

The best form of therapy for OCD is something called ERP. It is worth finding a specialist therapist, as mainstream therapy is much less effective. The OCD UK website has very good advice on finding a therapist. For kids and teenagers, the Maudsley hospital is one specialist NHS place for this; they also have some private treatment available, I think (or they did when I last looked). Some therapists offer treatment via Zoom, so you may be able to access a non- local one.

SSRIs are also recommended and have helped my daughter a lot.

I know you say that your daughter is NT, but it may also be worth revisiting this question. Many autistic girls mask very, very successfully as kids and then as teenagers the strain becomes too much. OCD in teenagers is very highly associated with autism. Of course it's not a given, but I just wanted to mention it.

I wish you and your daughter all the very best.

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 11:49

Thank you - and I am sorry you and your DD have gone through similar. But it is also helpful to have another perspective as it can feel quite lonely.

My next question is how quick to get help?

We’ve had a week of this - will we be taken seriously?

I can’t think of any other OCD type behaviours but know very little about it other than what main stream media tells us about OCD.

I suffer from health anxiety myself and have since I was a teenager - to varying degrees. I know that some people see these as being closely linked. I am
on a low dose anti anxiety med at the moment and have been for 2 years now. Not sure if they have worked or if I am just going through a more settled period, which has always been my pattern.

I genuinely have never been concerned that she is masking - but again, I am open to suggestions!! She is very black and white in her thinking at times. Quite literal but her dad is the same.

It’s the thoughts about suicide that terrify me.

OP posts:
Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 11:56

Wow have just read the OCD page you recommended and it is exactly how she is at the moment - but not always. But right now.

And it is also - ME

OP posts:
Godwindar · 05/12/2023 12:05

From experience, I would also query ASD. Very common to present at this age, the transition to secondary impacting, the development in her anxiety (including this being intensified with hormones) is very common.

Plexiglass · 05/12/2023 12:13

I can really understand that the mention of suicide is disturbing to you. On the other hand, she seems very clear that she does NOT want to die or hurt herself, and she is upset by the thoughts. This really sounds to me like an OCD intrusive thought - sufferers find themselves thinking about things which distress them very much (for example, harming loved ones, harming animals, committing paedophilia, all sorts of horrible things). They are appalled at their "own" thoughts and worry that this might mean they are the type of person to commit these acts. In fact they are not, but the thoughts are a symptom of the illness.

It's really good that your daughter is speaking to you about this. Often people suffer these things in secret, sometimes because they are ashamed to admit what thoughts they have been having.

In terms of being taken seriously: I think you should be, but this depends how good and sympathetic your GP is. Ours is very good, and was happy to refer DD to CAMHS, but the waiting lists on CAMHS were so bad that we went private (v lucky to be able to afford this). Sadly CAMHS is often so overwhelmed that it is inadequate. I don't know what it's like in your area.

While it doesn't sound to me as though your DD is planning anything suicide-related, I am not a professional or anything and I think you should definitely get a GP appointment to discuss this and the other matters. Speaking cynically, I would say that mentioning the intrusive thoughts of suicide and how worried you are about them to your GP can only be helpful in terms of securing a CAMHS appointment. Unfortunately only the cases deemed most urgent/extreme get seen in our area, and emphasising thoughts of suicide is one path to this. It may be better if your daughter is not present for that section of the appointment if you choose to emphasise this - otherwise it may increase her fears that it's something she might do.

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:14

I am open to any suggestions - but genuinely have never been concerned about ASD. In the sense that it couldn’t be further from my mind?

But as I said, open to considering anything - and anything that could help her right now as she’s really struggling and really sad about it all.

OP posts:
Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:16

Thanks both.

I will speak to DH tonight and will also make an appointment to see our GP. I work in social care and my experience of CAMHS in our area is not awful but also not great.

OP posts:
Plexiglass · 05/12/2023 12:20

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 11:56

Wow have just read the OCD page you recommended and it is exactly how she is at the moment - but not always. But right now.

And it is also - ME

I think our common cultural perception of OCD can be really unhelpful -"ooh, I like to line my books up neatly, I'm so OCD!"

The actual reality of OCD can be so different that sufferers don't necessarily even recognise the illness. It ought to be better known.

Incidentally, I was utterly shocked to find out that my DD had autism after 14 years.

Sparthan · 05/12/2023 12:23

It sounds like existential angst, which often hits when kids are old enough to understand the reality of life and death. I agree with the suggestion of exploring possible ASD, simply because kids with ASD usually begin having struggles in the early secondary school years.

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:26

I had some rituals when I was younger that I hid - checking the gas cooker was off every night. I could be there for an hour. Checking the door is locked over and over and over.

It passed though, to be replaced by health anxiety. Again, from the outside no one knows except a trusted few. Good job, responsibility, a bit of a doer etc. but that fits in well to the OCD description I’ve just read.

Intrusive thoughts - I’ve had so many over the years and still do. From worrying I will fall downstairs and die to being scared I would hurt my kids when they were wee. Never in a million years thought this was OCD. But it clearly is likely for me.

Are the thoughts she is experiencing common? Worry about death? Worry she will become ill and hurt herself etc?

OP posts:
Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:27

Sparthan · 05/12/2023 12:23

It sounds like existential angst, which often hits when kids are old enough to understand the reality of life and death. I agree with the suggestion of exploring possible ASD, simply because kids with ASD usually begin having struggles in the early secondary school years.

This is what we thought it was too. Until she mentioned suicide.

I feel she has been utterly overwhelmed by realisations - village primary school, very sheltered, great friends, then suddenly friendship issues, friend group goes to different school, exposed to lots of things in town secondary school etc etc

OP posts:
Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:31

Just to say, I can’t thank you enough for replying.

It is helping so much - to understand what might be going on, but also to calm me. We are not alone with this at all.

I should know this because of my work but you think that a stable home and lots of love will shelter your child from things - it really doesn’t does it. Plus she has experienced so much in her wee life already

OP posts:
Sparthan · 05/12/2023 12:41

This is what we thought it was too. Until she mentioned suicide
Honestly it sounds like part of the realisation that death is possible. Like that feeling you get when you stand on a high building and think “I could just jump”. I found it horrifying to realise that I could actually end my own life. It felt dangerous, like I had too much power and the responsibility was too much to bear.

As a parent I would initially look at helping her to come to terms with existential angst and talk about personal autonomy. I would also research ASD symptoms and see if any of them fit.

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 12:46

Sparthan · 05/12/2023 12:41

This is what we thought it was too. Until she mentioned suicide
Honestly it sounds like part of the realisation that death is possible. Like that feeling you get when you stand on a high building and think “I could just jump”. I found it horrifying to realise that I could actually end my own life. It felt dangerous, like I had too much power and the responsibility was too much to bear.

As a parent I would initially look at helping her to come to terms with existential angst and talk about personal autonomy. I would also research ASD symptoms and see if any of them fit.

This is what my DH thought / thinks.

OP posts:
Plexiglass · 05/12/2023 13:32

Existential angst is definitely a thing. There is also something called "existential OCD" in which sufferers find it hard to stop ruminating on these questions. Sorry, I know I keep harping on about OCD , but some of my DD's intrusive thoughts are existential as well.

"I should know this because of my work but you think that a stable home and lots of love will shelter your child from things - it really doesn’t does it."

This really resonates with me because I have the same feelings.

Lovethistimeofyear · 05/12/2023 13:57

You aren’t harping on at all!!

It makes so much sense to me.

OP posts:
mirabella84 · 05/12/2023 17:23

Lots of good advice here.

My ds started to get intrusive thoughts at the same age - fast forward 5 years and they slowly got progressively worse but with 3 courses of CBT therapy and recently starting antidepressants, things are improving.

First stop, doctors. And if you can afford it, get private CBT therapy as CAMHs only seem to act when things are at crisis point.

It's awful and scary, I know x

Lovethistimeofyear · 07/12/2023 21:40

Thanks everyone again - it is so appreciated. And again, I am so sorry others have, and continue to, experience the same.

Your advice has been so helpful and I’ve listened to everyone - we’ve had a couple of very settled days. Busy and fairly normal. But settled. DD has slept well, ate well and been at various clubs after school.

We chatted again and I am reassured that she doesn’t want to self harm - but I am still terrified! Trying to remain calm though and just keep talking to each other at the moment.

OP posts:
Plexiglass · 08/12/2023 09:35

Wishing you and your daughter all the very best. There's no denying this is a tough situation to be in. But there are tools and ways of managing it, and your daughter is lucky to have you in her corner, doing the research and caring for her and helping her get the best outcome.

Eyesopenwideawake · 08/12/2023 09:42

Have a (free, no obligation) chat with Therese Langford of https://www.facebook.com/calmmindhypnotherapy - she works exclusively with children

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/calmmindhypnotherapy

Greygoose46 · 17/11/2025 08:40

Huge long shot as this thread is so old but if OP is still on moment I’d really appreciate getting in touch. I’m going through the exact same with my daughter now. @Lovethistimeofyear

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