9 year old dd struggling with co-parenting

[FBest]

Hi! I am after some advice please if anyone can help.
My ex and I split up when our daughter was 2.5 years and we have been co-parenting since then. It has generally been okay until recently. My daughter is now 9 and after spending time with her dad and grandparents over the summer is now reluctant to go to her dad's.
Since moving into Year 5, I got her a mobile phone as children are allowed to walk home from school and parents are advised to provide them with a phone for safety walking to and from school. My ex was reluctant for her to have a phone but agreed eventually. He is being extremely strict with her phone usage but has not set clear guidance on this which has led to an argument between them. Since the argument, my daughter is nervous about going to his place and cries when she is there.
My ex wants her to see a school psychologist but I feel that this will make her think it's her fault. Is there anything I should be doing first before seeking professional help? I have tried talking to her about it and I've tried mediating a conversation between them but it hasn't helped.
I am worried about my DD - she is now dreading school holidays instead of looking forward to them if she has to spend them with her Dad.

Is this about the phone usage? Or about his parenting style around discipline?
Is your DD attached to the phone because she wants to contact you? Or is she wanting the phone for usual internet nonsense and contact with friends? I can see both of those being points of contention if the phone is interfering with the contact time with her Dad.

Why don't you and her Dad come up with an agreed phone use agreement and stick to it. She is too young really to have a smart phone, should just be used for messages and calls in an emergency and therefore no arguments needed.

Beamur, thank you for your reply. Initially it was about phone usage at her grandparents. He was not happy about her using her phone when she was there even though she wasn't using it excessively. It then became about her phone usage for texting me when she is with him mostly because he works from home and she gets bored easily. And she has become more attached to the phone to contact me and he feels it is causing separation anxiety.
We agreed that she wouldn't take her phone with her to his but this hasn't really changed how she feels. She is still getting upset before she goes there and when she is there.
When she is with me, she barely uses her phone and when she does it's to chat with friends etc.

Dd is right to expect her father to spell out the rules around phone usage. For example, she might have to hand over her mobile when he picks her up.
It's common for rules to be different in each house and for rules to change as the child gets older. It's hard to say if he's being unreasonable because you might be too lax but ask your ex to think about some rules so that dd can feel secure. Knowing the rules will mean that they clash less because she will expect to hand over her phone when dad picks her up or whatever. Phones are a necessary modern evil and it's hard to work out a way of easing them into using them.

Your 9/10 year olds has a phone for safety when walking home from school, so why does she have it at other times?
It sounds like dad enforces boundaries and she doesn't like it

Smilesup thank you for your reply. We did come up with a usage agreement but it isn't being enforced when she is there unfortunately. When she was at her grandparents, she was allowed to keep her phone with her (which was not part of the agreement) but then when her Dad was told about it, he got annoyed with her and that led to the argument.

UndercoverCop - she doesn't have it at all times when she is with me but over the holidays, this wasn't properly monitored when she was visiting her grandparents which has led to an argument. The problem isn't so much about the phone usage because she doesn't take her phone to her Dad's anymore. She is upset about going there now and he feels she needs to see a counsellor.

BoohooWoohoo - I am more lax with her when she is with me but she hardly ever uses her phone when she is with me. I feel that problem is now is more about the argument that they had and she is now upset when she goes there and I am not sure how to fix it. I hate seeing her being upset and not looking forward to school holidays.

My advice - fwiw - is to maybe leave the phone at your house entirely until she is older.
Have an agreed time that she can contact you, with her Dad's phone or landline. I'd suggest this is not at bedtime but maybe in the morning.
My DD is an anxious child and on a few occasions when she was either away with Dad or I was away, we definitely find keeping contact fairly minimal is better for her.
I'm also a Guide Leader and we do not allow phones on camp for several reasons - but increased anxiety and missing home is a big one.
I'd try and encourage your DD to keep up with contact with Dad and maybe taking the phone out of the picture altogether for now will help avoid any mixed messages.
I'm presuming you trust your ex and have no concerns about your DD when there as a general rule.

Thank you so much for your advice. This is really helpful. We have agreed that she won't take her phone with her.
We will try that and see how it goes. When you suggest keepin contact with Dad, do you mean when she is with me that she keeps contact with Dad? And taking the phone out of the picture altogether - do you recommend not using the phone at all even when she is with me?
I don't have any concerns about my ex and I trust him.

You say the phone stays with you now - I guess it's more of a case of your ex working on re-establishing the relationship with DD. To do that, he does need to see her.
Maybe you can help her by trying to draw a line under the previous events, talk her through what happened, sympathise with how it made her feel but help direct her to accept it, move on and enjoy time with her Dad and grandparents again.

Is it possible that your DD could meet up with her Dad for afternoons or something for a while rather than actually having to stay? It might just break her association with the argument. Obviously if the distance is too great it won't be possible.
Re future phone use - how about writing out a formal agreement, acceptable (as far as possible) to the 3 of you, and then all signing it to show that you will all keep to it? If you could all sit and discuss it together that would be great, but depends on your relationship.

We are keeping to the schedule as much as possible and I am encouraging her to go to his which she does but she is getting upset.
Both my ex and I have tried speaking to her, letting her express her feeling about it (this has been going on since August) and trying to reassure her so that she can move on but it doesn't seem to be helping 😥

When you suggest keepin contact with Dad, do you mean when she is with me that she keeps contact with Dad? And taking the phone out of the picture altogether - do you recommend not using the phone at all even when she is with me?

I mean contact time continues as arranged. Does she ever ask to speak to Dad when with you?

I wouldn't take her phone away entirely, but I'm not sure generally speaking if 9 year olds have sufficient emotional maturity to deal with them. My DD had the use of a phone if she was out (only from yr 6 though) but didn't have her own until high school and we were pretty strict about apps. No tiktok, no Snapchat, no insta. She's 16 now and a very sensible user of social media.

However, I think when kids live between 2 homes it's more complicated.

Distance isn't too much of an issue but my ex would prefer to stick to the routine which I can understand but I have suggested a bit of flexibility which he is reluctant to do.
We did have an agreement which we all agreed to. The issue arose when she was at her grandparents and the agreement wasn't shared with them and my ex wasn't there either. Her grandparents just reported back to him that they felt she was texting me a lot and thats when he and my daughter argued.

I do feel for your DD though..poor kid.
I thinkSeeelines idea is worth thinking about - would your ex be amenable to something like that? Shorter but enjoyable time spent together while she gets to grips with these feelings?
Anxiety is not uncommon in this age group. Could you maybe get some resources to work through at home? There are some nice books for kids - we had one that was something like 'a big bag of worries'
With kindness and support your DD should be able to get past this.

You guys should try getting help because this has turned into a ridiculous tug of war.

Your ex doesn’t know how to help her feel safe and loved. It’s up to him to figure that out. Its not about the phone anymore. Does he have the warmth and emotional intelligence to reach out to her or visit her without treating her like an object or a duty? He can get her a therapist and attend sessions if he likes. He is the one who can’t figure out the relationship.

We are continuing with the usual routine but no, she doesn't really ask to speak to her Dad when she is here.
The phone doesn't have any social media apps on there and when she is here, she very rarely uses it. When she does, its to complete duo lingo lessons or to chat with her friends but that's very minimal.
During the summer holidays, she took her phone to her Dad's but mainly used it for contacting me when she was at her grandparents and he wasn't there.

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I think there’s possibly a lot more they haven’t told you. The psychologist might be a good idea to get to the bottom of her anxieties. Ultimately they will never force her to visit her Dad if she doesn’t want to and may even recommend supervised contact.

Thank you. She's a really good kid and very sensible for her age. It's just such a shame that she now isn't looking forward to half term and Christmas.
I'm not sure my ex will agree to this because he's a stickler for making sure he has his share of time. I suggested this previously and he said that I was trying to keep her from him.
The resources are good idea. I shall try that.
She beats herself up if she thinks she's at fault and I worry that by involving the school, she's going to feel like she's causing a problem.

To the PPs: who ARE all you people? “Necessary evil?” I was incredibly glad I had a phone when I saw a pregnant lady mugged on a street. And when my dd twisted her ankle so badly she couldn’t walk home. And when she rode her bike into lamppost and it was unusable.

And the “evil” mobile phone saved my dd’s MH on lockdown as she kept in touch with friends and family

you can’t expect your kids to be isolated from the way the modern world works.put timers on how much time she can have online, restrict app usage, tell your exdh to get with it or risk losing his dd’s affection and respect.

Your ex is already making dd feel like this is her fault. She deserves therapy as a safe space to process her crappy father using her like an object that he loaned out and wants back.

Something clearly doesn’t add up & I agree with PP that you need to further explore this. You say you have no concerns about your ex as a father. Unless I missed something, the ‘issue’ is that your ex didn’t give “specific enough instructions around phone use” whilst at grand parents (I’d have thought no phones whilst visiting grand parents would be obvious??), grand parents were cross as they felt they were being ignored due to phone use and grumbled to father who told her off. This is hardly a massive deal and should not lead to such an extreme reaction???