Where do I go for help, how do I handle this.

[Bettybarkalot123]

I wasn’t sure where to post this but I hope you can help.
Thought I’d start with some background.. My 11 year old DS has dyspraxia, he struggles massively at school but has support and is doing well. Everyday is tiring and a challenge, he struggles with friendships but is working really hard. He gets very tired.
My DD (15) doesn’t have a disability and is happy and content.
Yesterday morning before school my DS stood in my DD bedroom doorway and wouldn’t let her pass until she said “the magic word”. She hadn’t long woken up and proceeded to kick him hard in the hip and told him to F off. A scuffle ensued , I can’t remember what happened it was a bit of blur and I was trying to separate them. DD kicked DS twice and punched him.

Everyone calmed down and both went to school. When they got home my mum was waiting for them and she said DS was fine. I got home from work about half an hour after them and all hell broke lose. DS had bought a bottle of Lucozade Sport on the way home and I did wonder whether his behaviour was a reaction to something in the drink.
Another fight happened, this time started by DS. He basically was shouting, screaming banging his bedroom door, banging his cupboard door and was just completely out of control. It was as if he’d had a complete meltdown. He was totally inconsolable and seemed not to be in control of his own actions. He looked mentally exhausted.

We decided that DD should go to her Nanna’s house for the night to diffuse things. This morning DS was still raging and I’ve kept him off school as he seemed unwell mentally. He was threatening to beat DD up.

I don’t know what to do or who to turn to to help. Their relationship has always been strained and I’ve tried to ask DD to have some tolerance and to try and ignore the bad behaviour rather than reacting to it but our family life has become very miserable lately, due to DS’s behaviour. He is mostly fine and a pleasure to be around but roughly every month he has these terrible breakdowns.
I feel absolutely desperate. Any advice would be hugely appreciated. Thanks x

I have a DD with dyspraxia and another with some level of SEN who has always been exhausted by school, who had a MH collapse in lockdown.

1. Your DD needs to know that under no circumstance is she to hit your DS first, only ever to defend herself. There is no excuse to her lashing out however annoying he is being. As you didn't say 'stress due to GCSEs' I assume she is y10. She needs to walk away, call out for you.

2. If your DS is at secondary I would be asking for a review with tutor / pastoral care as to how he is getting on. I'd be thinking he is stretched to the limit at school and is lashing out at home because he can. I'd be looking for more adjustments for him (eg printed notes where he just fills in keywords, use of laptop) and possibly a reduced timetable where he can go to learning support in the meantime. Again if at secondary is the mask wearing causing stress? People with dyspraxia can have extra sensitivity to touch/material/clothing.

3. How are your DS's friendships? My DD with dyspraxia has always struggled with friends as she is slow to process conversation and doesn't get inference, so her responses are often 'odd' and not with the general flow.

I can also recommend a parenting counsellor who was running online sessions over lockdown so you could be anywhere in the country. She runs group workshops and also 1-1 sessions (at a price). PM if you would be interested.

Thank you so much for replying..
DD is a very high achiever, she seems to lack empathy towards other humans yet has huge empathy toward animals. We (me, my husband and her Nana) stressed completely that she was in the wrong she did lash out first despite being told she must always try to walk away and defuse the situation.. BUT as you say she has huge exam stress and she had just woken up. My DS was fixated on the fact that “she started it!”

He is doing very well at school. It’s a very large secondary school, he’s in a small nurture class for Send children. His tutor emailed me last week to say that his form had given him a round of applause as he was in the top 10 point scorers and top of his form. But school is a massive struggle, he gives his all. He uses a laptop for most of his lessons.

He finds friendships very tricky. Luckily he has a friend that is also our next door neighbour who has just started at his school and they’ve been friends since they were tiny so he does have support. It’s still hard though.

@TeenMinusTests

I have a DD with dyspraxia and another with some level of SEN who has always been exhausted by school, who had a MH collapse in lockdown.

1. Your DD needs to know that under no circumstance is she to hit your DS first, only ever to defend herself. There is no excuse to her lashing out however annoying he is being. As you didn't say 'stress due to GCSEs' I assume she is y10. She needs to walk away, call out for you.

2. If your DS is at secondary I would be asking for a review with tutor / pastoral care as to how he is getting on. I'd be thinking he is stretched to the limit at school and is lashing out at home because he can. I'd be looking for more adjustments for him (eg printed notes where he just fills in keywords, use of laptop) and possibly a reduced timetable where he can go to learning support in the meantime. Again if at secondary is the mask wearing causing stress? People with dyspraxia can have extra sensitivity to touch/material/clothing.

3. How are your DS's friendships? My DD with dyspraxia has always struggled with friends as she is slow to process conversation and doesn't get inference, so her responses are often 'odd' and not with the general flow.

I disagree so DD has to wait until DS hits? That's not right.

@idontlikealdi You must surely have misunderstood what I meant?

No one should be hitting anyone.
But the DD who is older (& presumably at these ages still bigger and stronger) with no SEN needs to be told to walk away if her younger sibling is winding her up. Under no circumstances should she be violent first.
However the DD should also be permitted to defend herself if for some reason she can't get away without. She shouldn't have to just cower and take it.

If your DD is y11 then having her stay at Nan's on and off until half term may help her. If you go onto the Secondary board you'll see that loads of posters have y11s who are stressed to high heaven with all the assessments schools are piling on.

This is going completely off piste here: You say she lacks empathy? Lots of 15yos can be very self centred, but not understanding other's feelings (which isn't quite the same as empathy but may be what you meant) can also be a trait of dyspraxia, or Aspergers, the latter of which often goes unnoticed in girls.

Your DS can be doing well in school whilst simultaneously massively struggling to cope. My DD2 was. Just lesson change overs and lunch can be overwhelming.

As they are both in the same school, I'd maybe turn to school first for help. Ask pastoral to talk to them both individually. They might open up about stuff they wouldn't to you?

Actually I think he needs a consequence for his violent behaviour. I think some counselling to help him control his emotions would be a good idea. You won't get anything from camhs or mental health services so will need to find someone privately. I would also not be leaving them alone. Could your ds have been taking drugs? Search his room and his phone to check. I can't see how his dyspraxia can have anything to do with a huge violent fight with his sister tbh. If you think he may have some other condition such as autism then get him assessed. Autism can involve violent meltdowns.

You know what?

I’d be fucking annoyed too if my sister kicked the shit out of me and my mum didn’t do bugger all about it.

He’s 11! His been kicked and punch by a 15 year old girl, let alone his sister. That’s incredibly disgusting behaviour and shouldn’t be tolerated. No wonder he is upset and frustrated.

Unless she also has SEN, I think you're making too many excuses for DD. Blocking a doorway until someone says the magic word is annoying sibling behaviour. Kicking someone hard in the hip is completely unacceptable, and at 15 she should absolutely know better.

Hello everyone, first of all, thank you all for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it and should have responded sooner but things have been full on.

DS is massively stretched at school and he struggles with friendships, he always has. His school is a very large secondary school. He is unfortunately in a threesome with his best friend and another boy, it’s tricky and the dynamic is definitely stressing DS out.

I have spoken to school and am waiting for a call from the Senco. I also called the GP to ask whether these angry meltdowns might be a sign of ADHD. She wasn’t very helpful and seemed to say that it was unlikely as they weren’t happening at school. But there other signs and symptoms and I will discuss these with the school as soon as I can.
@24GinDrinkingOnceTheKidsInBed I think it’s a little harsh to say I did nothing about it. My priority at the time was to diffuse the situation as swiftly and safely as I could. My DD has been spoken to and does understand that we all need to work together to help DS. She is trying really hard, but I do feel for her. Life is difficult and to be honest we all feel like we’re walking eggshells a lot of the time. She’s only 15 and a child herself but violence is completely unacceptable behaviour and she understands this.

He is struggling at school, even though he’s “doing well”! This past week or two have seen two or three similar meltdowns, unrelated to his sister, but triggered by quite minor disagreements with his friends. The latest being his friend calling him the c word, getting him in a headlock whilst the third punched him. Apparently he asked him if he’d not do it tomorrow at school and his friend replied “I can’t promise that!”.. that set him off into a furious rage.
Is it hormones, end of term exhaustion or a sign of an undiagnosed ADHD or autism. Dyspraxia affects children different and everyday struggles can lead to exhaustion, anger and frustration.

I was thinking of maybe a private assessment for ADHD.

Thanks again.

triggered by quite minor disagreements with his friends. The latest being his friend calling him the c word, getting him in a headlock whilst the third punched him.

I wouldn't call that minor. It's bullying, and a horrible environment to have to go back to day after day. How are the school dealing with it? I wouldn't accept being headlocked and punched by my colleagues, so it's weird to me to accept it in a school.

I know, but I got the feeling that it was just the three of them being silly.. maybe not though. It happened at an after school club so teachers would have been there.
I just feel so totally confused and at a loss where to go for help or what to think about it all. My head is all over the place.
We aren’t treating DSs meltdowns as bad behaviour we all just want to help him and make him happy and most of the time he is happy. He went to the coast for the day on Saturday with his friend and his friends family and had a wonderful day.

I’ve ordered Starving the Anger Gremlin and will start working through it over half term.

We’ve also started logging these angry rages in a diary with a description of triggers, etc. Maybe we will see a pattern.

Your daughter turned violent because he asked her to say please?

And she gets to go stay at nans and no punishment other than a talking too that she must be nicer? (i am assuming its a treat rather than a punishment?)

Your 11 year old is quite obviously triggered by the fact hes being bullied at school and then at home, twice violently. I think hes thinking an eye for an eye.

If he hits her does he get a weekend away at his nans too?

Obviously im looking at this from the complete outside and idk how you work in your house but from the few bits you have posted i see a pre-teen whos struggling & you favouring your eldest over achiever despite the fact she hit out first to a silly minor disagreement.

None of them are right, he should be reprimanded for slamming doors and winding up his sister, but she should be punished harder for the violence.

I hope your find your way through OP, i mean no harm just how i see it. Teenage years are tough i remember being one, and dreading having them.

That all sounds really stressful.
I haven't got much time now but one thing stood out in your last post about the GP saying that if he wasn't having meltdowns at school it wasn't ADHD.
I think that is bollocks, all children with enough ability to mask difficulties ( of whatever kind) will mask in school and home ( a safe place) is where you will get the meltdowns.
I would also say though that all specific needs like ASC, ADHD, Dyspraxia, dyslexia when you look at them kind of form a Venn diagram in that there are overlaps and commonalities- it's hard to tease everything out. So it may still be related to the dyspraxia, there may also be hormonal changes.
Like a pp said I would maybe ask school if they could work a bit more on a kind of destress/ debrief at the end of each school day so that he doesn't come home with unresolved issues.

Thank you. Yes I’ve spoken to the school and they have been great. They’re doing an ASD screening test to see if there are any specific areas they can support him with and are providing him with extra intervention in the area of emotions and emotional regulation.
There is definitely cross over with his dyspraxia and other things and I’ve raised the possibility of ADHD with school who will keep this in mind.

I have also taken lots of time to learn how I should react in these angry, aggressive meltdown situations and I’m trying to learn how best I can help him and of course my daughter. My DD is a lovely girl, she knows she behaved very badly and there hasn’t been any incidents between them since. She is only 15 and dealing with some huge emotions herself.