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Urgent: Fluoxetine and suicide risk

13 replies

ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 15:08

Hi,
Does anyone know if there is any research/ articles/ information on line about the increased risk of suicide for adolescents (age15/17) on fluoxetine after a year of taking it without any problems ?

I almost can’t believe I’m typing this but my DD took an overdose out of the blue last week and is thankfully medically ‘fine’. Her mood is / was not actually low but she experienced an increase in anxiety and impulsivity. The latter was a marked change which alarmed her.

Everyone within CAMHS has been adamant that the risk is only in the first couple of months and that fluoxetine cannot be a factor after a year of taking it ‘successfully’.

I’m just not sure I believe this.

The psychiatrist is happy to comply with dd’s request to increase her dose to address the anxiety. I am very concerned about this (understatement) and would be very grateful if anyone can point me towards any articles/ research that might be relevant.

TiA

OP posts:
oxalisRed · 13/05/2021 15:16

I'm so sorry to hear about your DD's attempt. My DD only took Fluoxetine for a few weeks (prescribed by psychiatrist, she was 17) but took herself off it because she felt it increased her suicidal thoughts. She's now on Sertraline and that has worked better for her.

It wouldn't surprise me though that the balance of benefits/disadvantages of any medication will change over time. Just because she's been OK for a year, that doesn't guarantee that her situation won't change, her ability to handle things or that the effects will continue in the same way on her body.

I've not got any research to help you I'm afraid. Flowers to you and your DD.

PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 15:21

Im sorry your DD has done on overdose. Glad to hear she is recovered.

They’re correct. The reason why the suicide risk is higher for first two months is because Fluoxetine is a type of medication that has to build up gradually in your system before it can have any benefit. So the first two months you are taking it, you are not getting any benefit from it because it’s not built up enough yet. So people who are severely depressed tend to get a bit worse before it starts working and so the suicide risk is a bit higher. But if she’s been taking it a year, it can’t be the Fluoextine contributing to it.

I’ll try and find studies, but that’s the reason why.

Why did your DD request a higher dose? I would think the psychiatrist would have a chat with her and consider prescribing something to go along with the Fluoxetine to help with the bursts of anxiety and impulsivity.

I’m not a psychiatrist or anything, but my husband has depression and has taken Fluoxetine for years. It helped his depression a lot, but for anxious episodes that just came out of nowhere he was given clonazapam to take as needed. I think he got 8, 500 microgram pills a month. And he’d just use one to calm himself when he’d feel an anxiety attack building. Not saying that is what your DD needs, but I think it’s a bit lax to just up the dose of Fluoxetine when from your OP this is a new symptom that your DD has to contend with.

ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 15:25

Thanks both.

He’s offered another medication (an antihistamine- which surprised me actually) but also said he’s up the dose if she wanted instead/as well.

It’s dd who is pushing for it... it’s going to cause resentment if I say no...

OP posts:
ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 15:28

Plan, i don’t think you’re correct about fluoxetine. It has a black box warning. I think it can actually cause increased risk as a side effect- not just because patients are low and not feeling the benefit yet. It’s a specific risk for under 25s.

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 15:40

@ComfyBed

Plan, i don’t think you’re correct about fluoxetine. It has a black box warning. I think it can actually cause increased risk as a side effect- not just because patients are low and not feeling the benefit yet. It’s a specific risk for under 25s.
Yes, I know since 2004. The warning was because they found increased risk of suicide in adolescents that occurred at the initiation of the drug or when the dosage is changed. (So changing the dose is a risk factor, and why I’m a bit surprised the psychiatrist is agreeing to it).

A causal association hasn’t been proven though because of the clear associations between severe depression and suicide and between severe depression and the need for antidepressant therapy. Because suicide is uncommon, it also is difficult to demonstrate the negative, which is that antidepressants do not cause suicide

PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 15:48

Here is the data
“Warnings and Precautions
Suicidal Thoughts and Behaviors in Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults

Patients with MDD, both adult and pediatric, may experience worsening of their depression and/or the emergence of suicidal ideation and behavior (suicidality) or unusual changes in behavior, whether or not they are taking antidepressant medications, and this risk may persist until significant remission occurs. Suicide is a known risk of depression and certain other psychiatric disorders, and these disorders themselves are the strongest predictors of suicide. There has been a long-standing concern, however, that antidepressants may have a role in inducing worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidality in certain patients during the early phases of treatment. Pooled analyses of short-term placebo-controlled trials of antidepressant drugs (SSRIs and others) showed that these drugs increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults (ages 18 to 24) with MDD and other psychiatric disorders. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older.

The pooled analyses of placebo-controlled trials in children and adolescents with MDD, OCD, or other psychiatric disorders included a total of 24 short-term trials of 9 antidepressant drugs in over 4400 patients. The pooled analyses of placebo-controlled trials in adults with MDD or other psychiatric disorders included a total of 295 short-term trials (median duration of 2 months) of 11 antidepressant drugs in over 77,000 patients. There was considerable variation in risk of suicidality among drugs, but a tendency toward an increase in the younger patients for almost all drugs studied. There were differences in absolute risk of suicidality across the different indications, with the highest incidence in MDD. The risk differences (drug versus placebo), however, were relatively stable within age strata and across indications. These risk differences (drug-placebo difference in the number of cases of suicidality per 1000 patients treated) are provided in Table 1.

Table 1. Risk Differences in the Number of Suicidality Cases by Age Group in the Pooled Placebo-controlled Trials of Antidepressants in Pediatric and Adult Patients
Age Range (years)

Drug-Placebo Difference in Number of Cases of Suicidality per 1000 Patients Treated

Increases Compared to Placebo
< 18
14 additional cases
18 to 24
5 additional cases

Decreases Compared to Placebo
25 to 64
1 fewer case
≥ 65
6 fewer cases

No suicides occurred in any of the pediatric trials. There were suicides in the adult trials, but the number was not sufficient to reach any conclusion about drug effect on suicide.

It is unknown whether the suicidality risk extends to longer-term use, i.e., beyond several months. However, there is substantial evidence from placebo-controlled maintenance trials in adults with depression that the use of antidepressants can delay the recurrence of depression.

All patients being treated with antidepressants for any indication should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of a course of drug therapy, or at times of dose changes, either increases or decreases.

The following symptoms, anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania, have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for MDD as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric. Although a causal link between the emergence of such symptoms and either the worsening of depression and/or the emergence of suicidal impulses has not been established, there is concern that such symptoms may represent precursors to emerging suicidality.

Consideration should be given to changing the therapeutic regimen, including possibly discontinuing the medication, in patients whose depression is persistently worse, or who are experiencing emergent suicidality or symptoms that might be precursors to worsening depression or suicidality, especially if these symptoms are severe, abrupt in onset, or were not part of the patient’s presenting symptoms.

If the decision has been made to discontinue treatment, medication should be tapered, as rapidly as is feasible, but with recognition that abrupt discontinuation can be associated with certain symptoms [see Warnings and Precautions (5.15)].

Families and caregivers of patients being treated with antidepressants for MDD or other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric, should be alerted about the need to monitor patients for the emergence of agitation, irritability, unusual changes in behavior, and the other symptoms described above, as well as the emergence of suicidality, and to report such symptoms immediately to health care providers. Such monitoring should include daily observation by families and caregivers. Prescriptions for Fluoxetine should be written for the smallest quantity of tablets consistent with good patient management, in order to reduce the risk of overdose.

It should be noted that Fluoxetine is approved in the pediatric population only for MDD and OCD.”
www.drugs.com/pro/fluoxetine.html#Section_5.1

ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 15:48

Plan, I’m not sure that I understand your post, sorry as your two points seem different/ contradictory to me - but I’m stressed and maybe I’ve misunderstood.

I am very interested in a source for increased risk with dose changes... can you tell me where you read that/ how you know, please?

OP posts:
ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 15:49

X post sorry. Will read xx

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 15:56

Oh, sorry comfy bed. My first post was simply me trying to repeat what my DHs psychiatrist explained to me as the current thinking as to why suicide risk is higher the first two months of taking an SSRI antidepressant. I wasn’t trying to say it doesn’t exist? The later post is the actual warning literature with summary of the studies. So there is definitely a correlation, but no one has proved causation or why the suicide risk increases (yet).

ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 16:03

Thanks Plan. Can you post a link to that long quote, as I’m getting all sorts when I copy and paste your text into google!

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 16:04

Sorry. I thought I had included it.

www.drugs.com/pro/fluoxetine.html#Section_5.1

ComfyBed · 13/05/2021 16:19

You did. It’s me abs my stupid phone. I didn’t realise the link at the end was the same as the quote! (And when I copied and pasted I ended up on a random website that has obviously quoted the same passage. )

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 13/05/2021 16:24

LOL. Well glad you have the link now. The whole page is full of great information that I didn’t cut and paste. You can also use drugs.com to look up any other medication that they might suggest for your DD. It is US based but I still think it very well done.

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