Please guide me through this- DD doesn't want to speak to CAHMS

[mylovelydd]

My DD15 has been suffering for far longer than I realised and hiding how much she was struggling with intrusive thoughts and chronic self esteem.
She's such a beautiful, kind, thoughtful young woman and it's breaking my heart to see her like this.
She is having intrusive thoughts. It's been a range of things from worrying she might harm the dog, whether she was a pedophile, whether she is trans. It changes but she can come back to worrying about the previous things if anyone happened to mention something related in the news etc.
It's like it reanimates it.
She's extremely bright and has stated that she doesn't want to have OCD (she's obviously been researching what's 'wrong' with her)
I have told her we don't know yet that she even has any disorder and that this may be a phase relating to what's going on in the world or it might not be.
I suggested today that we see the GP (have suggested it before and she has refused) she said she didn't want to tell them what she was thinking in case they think she IS these things. I said they will have heard this a million times over and won't think that anyway.
She seemed less resistant today about speaking to the GP but has stated flat out that she doesn't want to be referred to CAHMS.
She has known other children at school who have been to CAHMS and has heard nothing positive about it.
I don't know what to do and feel out of my depth. Does she HAVE to be seen by CAHMS? Could I take her to the GP and insist I find a good private therapist or counsellor for her? What do I do?
Reading up on it, it certainly seems like the thoughts she has fits in with the 'Obsessional' part of the OCD but she isn't having any compulsions that I know of. I am NOT trying to diagnose her, I just don't know how she would cope with that diagnosis if that's what this is.
Her anxiety is through the roof and I am at a loss as to what to do next to get her the right help.

My DD has a lot of anxiety and also didn’t want to go to CAMHS but fortunately my husband had some health insurance through work and we got her a private therapist recommended by the insurance company.

GP or school nurse, then look for a CBT therapist via the BABCP find a therapist list (to make sure they are accredited). There is lots of ocd about right now and this does sound like it. But your daughter doesn't have to call it this, she could just think of it as wanting to learn how to respond to intrusive thoughts or obsessions. Breaking free from OCD is a good book for you. Hope it goes OK. Some antidepressants can really help with ocd too.

Pure obsessions type or Pure O is not unusual for ocd.

I think CAHMS may be helpful, they have a wealth of knowledge, and may be able to reassure her, she could just maybe go once and see. My youngest son who was 13 at the time for referred there for his anxiety disorder. It was helpful, the people who worked there made us feel very welcome, l found it a much better experience than the GP. The first appointment was just a relaxed chat, nothing what so ever to worry about, and l remember coming out so relieved thinking someone finally gets it. Good luck to you both.

Thank you so very much for your replies.
I am sat here crying because I feel so helpless.
Will a CBT therapist be able to prescribe anti depressants if that's what she needs along with talking therapy?
I will order that book now.
Hope they do it on kindle because she keeps bursting into tears saying she doesn't want to have OCD - I didn't even think this is what was going on but she obviously suspects that, I don't know how she will cope with being diagnosed.
@Bigbus, @Scrapthatthen I hope your DC are coping ok with lockdown etc, I think this has really stepped things up for her as she's been so isolated.

If you can afford it by all means skip CAMHS, which are chronically underfunded, and go private. There will be less pressure around the number of sessions.

My daughter has started having panic attacks this lockdown. I hope your dd is OK. The main theory to teach her is that thoughts aren't facts and to boss them back. If she can learn to go against the thoughts and prove they are lying to her then she can start doing the things she enjoys again. If she plays it safe the problem will proliferate and get worse for her. And OP, don't let her engage in frequent 'reassurance talk' with you because it will not help.

Oh and if she can try a diffusion technique, rather than try to push the thoughts out and not think them, say the word out loud a lot of times, or write it down. (when we push thoughts away they pop up more).

It sounds like your daughter needs to work with someone who will normalise her experiences. This is not about minimising the distress they cause (nor am I refuting the existence of OCD as many people find that a helpful term). But clearly for your daughter, it is important to her not to be labelled and that is perfectly fine. Intrusive thoughts are something that most people describe experiencing on some level. For most people, they are occasional or circumstantial or they are very used to/adept at dealing with them. For whatever reason, your daughter is experiencing them strongly and is finding them very distressing. Working with a counsellor could help her understand what they are and how to deal with them. We all have lots of mental tools that we rely on; some people are great at managing stress, others are organised, others are relentlessly upbeat etc. Most of us need to acquire more tools in our lifetime to deal with challenges e.g. insomnia. Maybe your daughter would find it helpful to think of a counsellor as someone who can teach her a new set of mental tools rather than someone who is 'treating' her?

My dd (just 13) has been having intrusive thoughts these last few months. Mainly about worrying about being bisexual. Fortunately she talks to me ALOT about her thoughts and feelings so I have been aware since the start of it all. I actually had no idea this is what she had been experiencing until I read a Mumsnet thread about a new mother having thoughts about her newborn being the wrong baby (switched at birth). A penny dropped and just giving it a name helped her enormously, she felt she wasn't going mad and it was 'a thing'.

I sent her screenshots from websites I read about how to help which again helped loads as she she referred back to these numerous times.

I also bought the book Overcoming unwanted intrusive thoughts. At first, she only dipped into it as she was worried reading it would makes things worse and give her mind 'ideas' but lately she has started reading it all.

She is so much better. Has moments of worry and anxiety but can put them more into perspective.

We also refer to the thoughts as 'IT' (intrusive thoughts!) and I asked her what her most hated name was and we would call them that. She chose Brianna (!) and I just explain that Brianna is welcome to come knocking at the door (her mind) and dd can absolutely acknowledge she is there but does not have to answer the door (think about IT).

Seems to have helped too.

She is not displaying signs of OCD or similar (I was a bit worried that reading the book would alert her to such things tbh) so can't help with that.

It breaks your heart when they're not happy. I have 4 teenage dc, each with their own unique and different mental challenges. It's mentally exhausting for me but luckily I don't suffer from MH problems myself otherwise I really don't know how I'd cope!

Good luck

If you can afford private, its a great option. Go for a correctly registered and qualified clinical psychologist (should have a doctorate) or counsellor (should have AT LEAST a diploma and CBT training).

It does sound like OCD symptomatology - the compulsions can be absent ('pure O') or can be 'covert' eg people might do thinking 'behaviours' rather than overt ones (an example would be counting)

I would also definitely recommend the 'overcoming' book as @tarapinn has said

My mother has OCD, I have OCD and my children have OCD (although one is very mild and the other is unfort very bad). I've had over 4 years of therapy on the NHS and my children have had private therapy.
I am sorry she is having intrusive thoughts. They can be very stressful.
I did a course once on the teen brain - its not a more mature child's brain or an immature adult's brain - its a completedly different brain. Their brain starts throwing things out and remodelling itself from the back forward. They go through a very long period where the decision making part of their brain is not developed (not until 25) and they rely on the impulse side of their brain to help make decisions. So its not surprising that if anything is going on up there that it becomes more noticable during the teen years.
For a start tell her not to worry as intrusive thoughts is very common - maybe research teen brains so both of you can understand how its a big time of change. It also doesn't mean because she has intrusive thoughts now she will have them for the rest of her life. Once I got over my instrusive thoughts I have never had them anymore because I know how to not even consider letting them start up again.
Its obviously not the same for everyone, but both my son and I found the intrusive thought part of OCD the easiest to overcome.
Dealing with OCD (or intrusive thoughts) this early on is really just about getting someone to teach her the tools she needs to manage her thoughts. Its really can be as simple as that. I overheard my son explaining to my daughter when he was 10 how to manage intrusive thoughts - he was telling her she just had to face her greatest fears.
Get your daughter to write down some of her intrustrive thoughts and together choose one to work on - like maybe her concerns about hurting the dog.
Ask her if she wants to hurt the dog (presumably she will say no). Tell her you are not worried that she will hurt the dog because you 100 trust that her subconscious would never let her hurt the dog. Then you need to find a way to leave her with the dog in a way that she could hurt the dog if she wanted to. Of course she won't hurt the dog and this will help give her the confidence to trust her subconsious when she is getting intrustive thoughts - and then work through her list.
I am of the understanding it is not unusal for people with OCD traits to have what is called a spikey brain profile ie they are very good at english or maths but are not so good at other subjects or seem to have a poor working memory or poor balance for example. This is because their brain has not fully developed in those areas. This is just my personal opinion (I am not a medical expert) but I have found that usually means someone's infant reflexes have not gone dormant. Please google this to see if its relevant to your daughter - because getting the reflexes dormant help the brain finish its development and helps reduce anxiety.
Finally, I really recommend that you get a private therapist - see if you can get recommendations. Although please only see a Chartered Clinical Psychologist. If you live any where near Windsor or Buckinghamshire please PM me and I will give you recommendations.
If you have health insurance its likely they will pay for this for you.
My son saw a Chartered Clinical Psychologist and we were able to knock most of his OCD on the head in less that a year. My daughter refused to see the same Chartered Clinical Psychologist and I had several false starts with other therapists who just made things worse - including at one point telling her she likely had ASD (we had her assessed and she didn't). She is back with a Chartered Clinical Psychologist and is improving but the journey of finding her the right person unfort did more harm then good.
If you have the funds I also recommend you ask the therapist to recommend a family therapist who can support you. Everyone's brain works differently and I have found it very hard to work out how to support my children. However, when I can discuss their behaviours with a trained family therapist, they can guide me to how I respond while I am parenting to achieve the best outcome.
I know you must feel stressed about this but please don't worry - your stress might actually be making her more stressed which will trigger more anxious behaviours in her. Intrusive thoughts are no big deal and please tell her that and show her that - all you need to do is get her to learn the tools to manage them and life can return to normal for you both.
And finally, my daughter asked me the other day if I could get rid of my OCD would I. I had to think hard about that because its really badly affected my life and I have spent years unpicking my OCD behaviour with therapists. But ultimately, I view OCD like something like dyslexia - our brain works differently to neurotypical people. Richard Brandson is dyslexic as are so many successful business people because their dyslexia helps them to think outside of the box. My OCD makes me obsessive about certain things. Because I am obssesive, I am very good at research and solving problems. Its one of the things I like most about myself so I can't get rid of my OCD as that would go too. I just need to learn to better manage the OCD behaviours I don't find helpful.
It's really important with your daughter if she develops further OCD traits to help her indentify the positive sides of her obsessive mind.

Would she see someone in Camhs as a one off 'nothing to lose' chat?

If not, i second seeing a private therapist. Best evidenced therapy for ocd is cbt, but quality of therapists ranges hugely. Look for a clinical psychologist (hcpc registered) or cbt therapist (babcp accredited, not just a member), who specialises in children and young people. However this is not a cheap route so i would try camhs first if possible.

The book recommended above is good, and ocd youth and ocd action websites are really good for info/ normalizing. Good luck.