Super nanny type needed t wells

[monkeypuzzeltree]

Anyone know of one in my area? Shocking behaviour from a 5 year old, need some help. She's aggresive, angry and being more than a Madame. I am at a loss, time to bring in an expert.

Do you think we could help if you tell us more?

She's for the last 4 weeks been having the most horrific tantrums. An arms flailing 5 year old I can handle but this is full on aggression. It started when she went back to school. I've spoken to the teacher who says she's actually been a lot calmer since last half term and has never had any sort of tantrum there.
Ends up with her scratching at me, I take toys away, she doesn't seem to care, I took swim lesson away last week, that mattered and improves things for a day.
After a good day today, she lost it at bedtime and then went on to a 2 hour rampage. I've cleared her room of half the toys as a result.
I don't know what other measures to take. I can't get out of her why she's so angry. That's why I thought someone else might be able to get it.
She's enjoyed a very nice life, I've tried to manage things so she's not spoilt, she does have to earn things but it's prob all our fault.
We also have a new au pair - poor girl is shocked!
Thanks for reading!

Oh blimey, sounds really difficult. What does she say when she calms down?

My dd is like this, and is much much worse when she is stressed. You say you have a new au pair - does she miss the old one? (If there was one)

It's been a long night, I also posted in the au pair page to see if it was a common thing when one joins. And now after another hour tantrum, she literally had a nap between them, I gave finally got to the bottom of it. It's that she needs more mummy time. Simple as that. My work has taken over somewhat and the au pair was meant to help that but she's seen it as another thing taking my time settling her in. Right, hopefully I can put this right quickly. Feel terrible that she got to this state.

I think taking toys away and depriving her of swimming lessons is harsh for a 5 ear old. She's tired after school - most of us are more crabby when we're tired and she's behaving well at school.

I would adopt more of a 'time out' approach. 'I'm not going to talk to you until you're in a nicer mood' - that sort of thing. 'Come back and talk to me when ou feel calm' etc. 'Go up to your room for a while and have a think about your behaviour'. And perhaps 'What would [teacher's name] think if he/she heard you talking to me like that?'

Worked for me - mine would appear half an hour later, grovellingly apologetic saying 'I'm sorry I was so horrid mummy' and I would reply 'Thank you - you're good most of the time'. Don't revisit whatever it is they've just done - they're already feeling bad about it.

Punishments and recriminations lead to an escalation of the behaviour - better to play it down and be nice.

Two things I would try are special time and a dream box. Special time bring 15 mins every day with you that is completely led by her where she gets to do something she wants to do, play a game, story etc. It is never taken away or threatened and even if she has had the worst day ever it still gets factored in. Bad behaviour can lead to a cycle of negativity and special time breaks that and puts in what it is the child is trying to achieve through bad behaviour.
Dream box is something for bedtime. Get a plain box, spend time decorating it with stickers and nice things like jewels. Tell dd it is a very special box that can hold her worrys for her so she doesn't have to taken them to sleep with her. At bedtime ask her if she has anything on her mind, write down the list, put in box, place box up in high in bed room. After she is asleep, remove paper and put glitter in box. It allows a safe and comforting space to talk about worrys and add a bit of magic to bedtime. Do this every night until she is more settled and bring it back out when ever she seems to be getting over whelmed.
Hope she feels more settled soon.

53dragon - nice in theory but that would be water off a ducks back. We use that for regular strops but the swimming was a result of a major tantrum. She is very confident in her own mind and very determined! But your right time out to control temper is inportant skill she's developing.
Dream box and special time are important. Special time is being implemented ASAP, work can wait!

monkeypuzzeltree if you were cross one day how would you feel if your dp took your car keys away? Outraged? Humiliated? Probably.
More likely to do what he said next time? No I thought not.
Don't try to control and dominate. Have an expectation that your daughter should behave in an adult way. Treat disputes as you would with an adult. She will still be unreasonable at times - she's 5. Your current tactics aren't working. I've been there/seen it/done it as far as this kind of behaviour is concerned. My own kids are 19 & 21 now and I've helped other people too. Or you can believe that your daughter is some kind of special case - she's not - she's a fairly typical 5 year old.

53 dragon, I take your point and you're right it's not working! Car keys is a good example - especially as we live in the sticks! I bow to your experience I really do but how else do I show her that sometimes she really does need to comply. Negotiation is just getting me no where. I'm at a loss.

Hmmm... difficult to know exactly without seeing her behaviour first hand. But here's what I did with my stroppy ds2 when he was 6...
I told him that we need to have a grown up chat and we would go out for a meal together.
Took him to his favourite cafe - table for 2...
Pleasant chit-chat, asking him about his day etc. Order our food.
Then along the lines of... 'I'm very proud of the way you work so hard at school and are always very good for your teacher.' Always start with positives, praise them etc.
Then... 'I think you'll agree that sometimes your behaviour isn't very nice, so we need to think of ways for both of us to be happier.' Crucially - you must tell her that sometimes you get it wrong and you will say sorry to her.
Agree the ground rules with her. Just as you would if you were in dispute with an adult. You wouldn't shout and carry on at an adult and try to enforce your will - you'd listen to their point of view.
Make it clear that you won't react to her if she shouts and screams - you will wait until she calms down and can present her case.
You must be open to negotiation, but also you must say that sometimes there will be a reason that she has to do as she is told. Try to make this an infrequent occurrence.
Then when things escalate (which they will sometimes) stay very calm and say 'This isn't how we agreed we would behave, is it?' Please don't shout at me. Go and have a think for a little while then come back and talk to me when you can talk calmly.
Or something like that It worked for me with my demanding ds2. Ds1 had been a piece of cake! Good luck OP