Getting some help for DS -ADHD? depressed? What to expect?

[Himalaya]

I am increasingly worried about DS (8)'s dark moods, loss of appetite, irritability, anxiety and dark thoughts.

He has always been a bit of an odd bod: tic'y, lots of little compulsions, alternatedly hyper-focused and unconcentrated, quite possibly dyslexic etc..But i hadnt done anything about getting a diagnosis, for any of this as he seemed happy to be someone who "thinks differently", although my guess he has ADHD, but not severely.

But now he seems to have completely lost his love of life. Not sure if the two are linked.

We watched the Newsround documentary about autism/aspergers the other day and he cried and said he wants to see a psychologist.

I guess the first step is to go to the GP and see if i can get him refered to CAMHS? Bit worried about how to get all this into a 7 minute appointment, as ive only ever been to the Dr for straight forward things before.

Should we take DS with us? Send one parent in first to discuss? I think he'd be quite happy to talk about the depression symptoms to the doc, but would feel sensitive and upset if we talk about the other stuff. Should i just talk about the depression to the GP and then other stuff with the specialist?

How long are we likely to have to wait? Will they take this seriously or tell us to stop being over worried? Should i go private?

Anyone with experience to share, please!

Hi Himalaya. I am sorry you are having such a tough time with your ds.

My ds (7) suffers from anxiety and depression. He was just diagnosed this year.

We started by going to our GP who referred us to our community paediatrician. We had to wait a little while to see her. She chatted to us for a long time and then sent us away with a questionaire for the school and one for us at home.

The class teacher found the questionaire didn't really let her say the things she wanted to say so she wrote a letter instead, outlining what she saw going on.

When we next saw the paediatrician she diagnosed him and referred him to Clinical Psychology at our local hospital. She put us on a speeded up waiting list but it still took 8 months to get an appointment.

We will have our appointment next week. We are told the appointment will last an hour to an hour and a half but I have no idea what will happen there.

Ds has been present at every appointment and has, at times, joined in with the discussion.

The school has also set up an IEP for him, giving him small targets to aim for over a few months and we meet every now and again to review his progress.

His class teacher has also set up methods for him to express how he is feeling to her and a time out place which he can take himself to when it is all too much.

Our ds has difficulty controlling all of his emotions, including his temper, so the time out option has been particularly useful as he has learned to remove himself when his temper is brewing rather than lose all control.

Have private messaged you

Thanks all for your kindness and advice. You've made me cry (... Which made me realise I will probably do this at the doctors too, which I don't want to do in front of DS...)

I really dont want to wait 8 months or more, but I also recognise that my so son is not all that serious compared to kids with autism and aspergers, serious behavioural difficulties, drug problems, anorexia, self-harm etc...so may well be at the back if a long waiting list.

I am prepared to go private, but not even quite sure what that means- psychiatrist, pychologist, counsellor etc.. How to know what you need, and how to find a good one? I guess GP may be able to advise on that too.

I think maybe CBT would help him.

Himalaya I agree that your first step is your GP. Don't worry if you cry but if it is any consolation I cry at the drop of a hat but didn't cry at all about this with the doc. I was so desperate to get my point across and get help that it drove me on.

A good friend of mine is a psychologist and she thinks my ds will be offered CBT so if the budget allows you could ask your GP to recommend somewhere/someone.

As it stands, nothing will improve until you take action so I suggest you get yourself to the GP on your own for a chat. Then make a follow up appointment to go with ds. I have done this for dd about a different issue and it allowed me to speak freely with the doc and gave the doc time to consider his approach with dd before he saw her too.

I may know more after our appointment on Tuesday LeninGrad - I will pass on what we learn.

There is a good book for kids called What to do if you worry too much which might help though. It has bits the child can fill in throughout it.

The anxiety and possible depression may be as a result of the stress he is under at school if he is possibly dyslexic and/or ADHD. He may be finding it hard to cope at school and it is having a knock on effect on his mood?

Depending on what your GP says, and what the waiting list/funding is like for a referral of some sort for him, (and assuming you can do it financially) you could just pay independently for an assessment by an educational psychologist, just to get the ball rolling. Whilst it won't specifically deal with any mental health issues, it will tell you more specifically what his concentration/ learning difficulties actually consist of. It won't give you the whole picture, but it will at least help you start to unravel what is going on in his little head.

Don't play it down by saying it's not as bad as other kids' problems - he is only 8, and it's not really normal for a little boy of eight to feel so confused and unhappy. He obviously has some self-awareness about his own condition and it is troubling him. If he is unhappy and failing to thrive in education then he deserves to have the help he needs, and the sooner the better, or he could end up being the self-harmer, or the anorexic or the druggie. You know in your heart of hearts if something isn't right - there is no need to feel guilt about getting him some help.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that he will end up a druggie if you don't do anything - just that you should not feel a fraud just because his issues don't seem as 'bad' as other peoples.

You need to get a statutory assessment for SEN. You can get the teacher to refer him and you should get an assessment by and educational psychologist to back up the statement if they give him one.

Prepare to pay privately to get and EP assessment as there is often a long waiting list.

Don't assume depression until his educational needs have been assessed and are being met.

Thanks Fellatio -

Yes that's what I am wondering - whether his SEN issues and his state of unhappiness are related, either physiologically or through him feeling unhappy because of feeling different, or not coping academically.

School treat him as dysexic already, but say there is no point from their perspective getting an EPs diagnosis as it wouldnt make a difference to how they treat him. When the issue seemed to be just dyslexia I went along with that, but now he is so unhappy I need to confront it.

So.. As everyone has said - time to call the GP for an appointment monday.

'Don't assume depression until his educational needs have been assessed and are being met.'

Yes, that is what I was trying to say, albeit it in a rambling way!

To be honest I think that school is doing pretty well by him, sensitive to his needs etc...I am not sure what a statutory assessment would do for him, as I they have said that they are doing everything they can for him around dyslexia (and he is making progress) and does not have the kind of behavioural difficulties that would mean be needs 1-to-1 support.

But on the other hand I do think him being able to put a name to why he 'thinks differently', to understand it and for us all to learn some strategies would help.

The depression though I think is real and not just school related. So I'd rather try to find a way through it than battle with school.

I think it is worth following up professionally. My ds's teacher couldn't try any harder for him but if he also gets treatment at the hospital then hopefully he will learn techniques that will help him for life, not just while he has an excellent teacher.

Himalaya with a full assessment by an educational psychologist the school will be able to help him better, the EP will tell them what they need to do. Without it they are just muddling through. Even dyslexia should have a formal diagnosis with an EP.

The EP is arranged through the local authority not the school, and and in my experience is worth paying for if necessary. Depression also needs to be diagnosed properly but it is frequently exacerbated by undiagnosed educational needs.

It does concern me that a lot of people I know with children with difficulties speak about them in front of the child. Good that you have recognised this Leningrad. At one point the penny dropped with me (I used to do the same thing).

Simple problems can sometimes be exacerbated by talking about them too much. My daughter recently asked me why she is going to the doctor - 'there's nothing wrong with me'. And so now I have accepted her discharge from the paediatric services, despite SEN, LDs and hearing problems. She's right, there's nothing wrong with her, she's just different. She's getting plenty of support from the EP and SALT services, but she's right - she doesn't need a doctor. I applaud you Himalaya, for so far, seeing your child's 'different thinking' as a part of him, rather than an illness - but of course it's always best to get a professional opinion if the issues are having a profound effect on his development.

Thanks again all for advice and experiences. I really appreciate it. This is really helpful to me in sorting out my head on the issues.

As Realhousewife said I am also worried about talking too much about problems infront of DS for fear that it exagerates them and makes him worry more.

At the same time I can see that professional diagnosis, counselling and teaching us all strategies would be helpful.

I guess what I want really is one person who would deal with DS over all his issues - learning difficulty, behavioural and mental health, rather than have one professional diagnosing dyslexia and one depression etc... Someone he would trust and who would work with him rather than just someone who would write a report so he can get a Statement. Is that possible?

As I've said I don't really understand the system and the different professionals involved - it seems like there are one set - CAMHS you access through the health service, and another - Ed Pysch through the LEA? can anyone with experience explain to me how they relate and how a professional you might engage privately relates to the two?

I would have to say that ds has been a lot happier since his problems have been discussed in front of him so I suppose it depends upon the child. He knew something had changed and didn't know what was going on. Now he has a bit more understanding and self awareness and that is helping him to try to manage his problems with his time out areas etc.

Ds's problems have not always beent there though - they were sparked by horrendous group parental bullying which was encouraged by the head teacher for a short while before they got to the bottom of things and realised ds was the victim rather than the bully.

Himalaya - the professionals involved do perform a different function and although Childrens Services are supposed to be joined up, they still are not.

Educational Psychologist is an expert in diagnosing whether your child has a problem with learning, such as dyslexia, autism, aspergers. They will tell the school the best way in which to teach him and advise you on how to handle things at home. Nobody else can diagnose dyslexia or autism, it is a specialism. They will also be able to pinpoint ADD, ADHD and other behavioral problems.

The Child and Adult Mental Health Services is something different again. They deal with psychological issues, whether they happen at home or at school, help find out the causes and again are specialists. I think GPs can diagnose depression, but I wouldn't trust their diagnosis personally. So Carrots had a good experience with them because they managed to get to the bottom of her DS's problems. (Awful experience Carrots, must have been horrendous).

To see both would be very helpful to your DS.

Regarding the talking about children in front of them, I think it's good to take time to listen to them, ask questions and really listen to their answers. I recommended this to a teacher once who had an autistic child with behavioural difficulties and she took the advice and came back to me and said 'you know, that really worked - thank you'!!! I'm thinking - ahem, it's not rocket science. Fact is that 90% of children suffering from depression say they feel they are not being listened to.