Am i a bad daughter for shouting at my Mum who has Dementia?

[Ripeberry]

Last weekend i was visiting my parents without the kids for a change and my Dad needed to have a break for 2hrs.
As i live over 50 miles away, i don't usually do this as i have the kids and my Mum does get very demanding.
Anyway, whilst he was away, i decided to do some cleaning as it's all a total pigsty with inches deep of dog hair.
My Mum also has a total reliance on cigarettes, she will smoke over 60 cigs a day and you have to ration them carefully, one every half hour.
What my Dad failed to tell me was that he was so tired that he just gave her a pack of cigs and they kept her going for almost 1hour (she chain smokes).
Was vaccuming and she started shouting that she wanted a ciggie, i said no and that she had to wait another 20 mins, then she shouted louder and louder and started coming towards me (can be a bit aggresive), so i moved away.
As i did so, the packet of cigs fell out of my back pocket and she just ran and grabbed them and sat back down, getting the wrapper off.
I just saw red and grabbed them back off her and literally screamed in her face that she has to wait 15 mins (by now).
No reaction from her, i've never, ever shouted at my mum like that in my life!
She just carried on shouting for ciggies, so i just went upstairs and locked myself in the bedroom.
She came upstairs but thankfully did not bang on the door.
Stayed there for 10 mins, then calmly came down and gave her the 1 ciggie she is allowed.
Then my Dad came home, told him what happened and he said try living with that 24hrs a day.
Problem is that he does not want help from anyone outside the familly, but sorry i can't help that much but at least my brother is only 10 mins walk down the road and he is not working anyway.
Mum, is now wheezing a lot and has a nasty cough, she has been doing this chain smoking for almost 4 yrs, ever since she was sectioned and had to stay in hospital for a couple of years.
My Dad says he cares for her, but i think he's killing her with "kindness" letting her smoke herself to death.
Just don't know what to do anymore.

Ripeberry, how awful for you.

Don't have any personal experience of this but through work ( I work for Attendance allowance) have seen lots of these sorts of cases and can only imagine how hard it must be for you and your family.

Don't have any advice, but hopefully this will bump so someone wjo's been in this situation will read it.

Really do feel for you x

God no I don't think you are a bad daughter at all. But I do wonder of the futility of trying to control her smoking. I mean what is her quality of life like, how old is she, does she have a long expectancy? Is it worth the hassle?
my GM spent the last years of her life fighting with her dc's about smoking and I used to think why the hell bother depriving her. But then I don't know your situation or much about dementia so ignore me. Sorry for your pain though, it must be miserable.

RB - you are definitely a caring daughter not a bad one. You are in a tough place - usually a long way away, your dad obviously cares hugely but he's becoming worn down by the situation they are both in.

I'm not sure of your parents ages but is a care centre an option for a day to give your dad a break? Re the ciggies - maybe you have to balance the 'satisfaction' they bring her against the 'stress' of her not having them and the health effects on bothsides.

One other thing - we all need to get used to the idea of parents, loved ones dying - always far too soon for our liking and before we're ready for it .. But I've found thats its the way it goes..

Maybe try to stay in touch wth your mum more - by phone - and encourage her to cut down?

Could you stick a nicotine patch on her or is it pure habit of shouting for one?

This must be INCREDIBLY difficult and your dad really needs some respite. He could contact Age Concern for some very well pitched advice.

Ripeberry - given her illness why on earth is controlling her fag intake in any way helpful?

Surely it is just creating stress and tension over something that really doesn't matter!

I would be very much in your father's camp of not sweating over it, if it makes your mum happy. In fact, I have taken exactly the same line with my own mother's smoking.

Think so too herbietea - shouting at something under your control as opposed to the dementia.

Ripe, her quality of life has gone.

Let her smoke herself to death.

I mean that in the best possible way. I really do. I actually think that in some, small part of her functioning brain, she knows she's doing the right thing.

Ripeberry

I work in a care home for dementia sufferers and I know it is hard too keep calm all the time it doesn't make you a bad daughter it makes you a human being! I can't imagine how it must be to see your mother in such a condition but perhaps you should try a day care unit within a care home, it will make you feel a lot better even if its only for one weekend a month.

As for the smoking TBH I would let your mother smoke perhaps ration her a little but let her smoke away it's what is normal to her and anything which keeps her brain stimulated even if it is just thinking about lighting a cigarette. Obviously this doesnt make any difference but will make her seem more independant as I imagine this to be the owrst part as I see on daily basis the frustration it can cause.

Thank you for all your kind replies. Desiderata, it think you have hit the nail on the head, she is trying to do herself in, but i'm also worried for my dad as he is breathing in all this sidestream smoke and it can't be doing his health much good!
They are both in their early sixties so not that old.
Although my mum smokes, she is in otherwise rude health and always has been, but my dad is visibly crumbling due to the stress and all of my mum's illness and the problems it caused 4yrs ago when my mum spent over £30,000 on stuff from shopping channels on TV!
He is still trying to pay it back, i've taken out a couple of loans on his behalf to help him pay it back.
Thank goodness now, she can't spend anymore money.
Social services are total rubbish, my mum refuses to go to ANY day center, my dad applied to have my mum's condition re-examined and they just phobbed him off and actually CUT his carers allowance as he seems to be "coping so well"?
If the social services can get away with it they won't help you at all, and my dad is not that keen on "outsiders" helping.
She has tried nicotine patches but she will put 3 or more on at a time.
My dad is trying to work out a way to make the ciggies burn slower by "steaming" them.
It's just typical, as i said my mum had manic depression all her life and every year she would make several attempts to kill herself and now that she is ill and has no quality of life she does not try anything like that.
Sorry, but that just messes you up as a child.

It sounds really grim, Ripe.

I don't know what you can do, tbh, but one thing you have to be very careful of is blaming yourself.

Because that will mess you up as an adult. It isn't your fault, all of this.

It is not your fault.

Yes social services are utter crap. You could try ringing them and saying you will hold them personally responsible for anything that happens to your dad/mum. Sometimes that works.

Carer's Allowance isn't administered through SS - and coping doesn't come into it- if that's been cut you should arrange for your father to see someone who helps with forms (GP should be able to point you in the correct direction- you need to fill in the form in a certain way).

I think your father needs to accept a break. He sounds as if he's living in an impossible situation.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I know how you feel- sometimes I shout at ds1 and then feel totally crap as he's severely learning disabled, but it's very difficult to deal with this sort of thing. It's only time to worry if it happens a lot. You're allowed one offs.

dementia is awful
i think the shouting and the guilt is pretty normal
agree with desi, except as it progresses how can she be trusted with a lighter / lit cigarette? that would worry me more than anything?

I really feel for you Ripeberry. We've experienced dementia in DH's family. It's a dreadful thing. Don't blame your father. It's worst of all for the 24-hour carers, and with dementia, he will never be thanked or have any human reward.

sorry for you all. Is there any daycentres for respite care for your poor father?

I try and go over every Sunday, mainly to give mum a bath and hairwash as she wont do it herself and wont let dad do it.
She does have continence problems so by Sunday is reeking a bit.
I clean the house as much as i can with the vaccum they have (must remember to bring mine!).
Its mainly to make sure that the dog hairs are kept to a minimum as i think they are like a tinderbox.
They have got smoke detectors in ALL the rooms, but there are burn marks everywhere, even on the wooden toilet seat (don't ask me how she does it).
The worst thing is at night, she smokes in bed and chucks the stubs over the side of the bed, the carpet is full of burn marks.
This is very theraputic for me, actually writting it down as it does sound as bad as i think it is.
My dad works at home as a publisher of scientific journals and he is in the process of writting a book that will make "all this worth it" in his own words.
He is just burying his head in his work and his book, because if he didn't he would have a nervous breakdown, i'm sure of it.
Thanks again for listening, i've also worked with dementia patients but it's always different when its your parents and the smoking just makes it SO MUCH harder.

ripeberry, this is a terrible situation for everyone involved here. I agree, SS are a big pile of soggy pants and will offer the least amount of care possible. But it is looking like this is really bloody hard for your dad. I think you need to start throwing your toys. If you rant and rave enough you could at least get some respite care for your mum, in a care home, away from her home. She will really bloody hate it, and thats sad, but sometimes the carer just needs a break themselves.

This must be really really hard for you too, i watched my father disintegrate in front of me with dementia and its awful, just awful. You will have to be like a rotweiller with a bone, but the help is out there, its just a case of routing it out. Is your mum on any medication to slow down the progression of the disease?

I tend to agree with Desi actually. My father died of lung cancer, probably because he smoked, actually he probably got the dementia due to smoking as it was vascular dementia. He survived only four weeks after diagnosis and i was so releived when he died as he had been released from his hell. I was adamant that there was to be no treatment and i didnt cry when he died. People thought i was weird, hard even. But it was better for him that way, i know he wouldnt have wanted to live. The only regret i have is that he never met his little grand daughter who was only eight weeks when he died. He wouldnt have realised, or maybe he would have, and that would have been worse somehow.

I think its time to think about some more permanent care arangements for your mum. Your Dad sounds like a lovely man and he needs a break.

Just posting with sympathies for an awful situation.

Tension and emotions are unsurprising in such a tough situation and I'm so sorry you are all experiencing this. You definitely shouldn't blame yourself - you're doing all you can.

I feel for you RB, my dad had dementia for around 6 years and my mum looked after him at home all this time.

She did however get some help from a Carers associated in Swindon. They looked after her really, sent her on day courses (painting etc) and trips to musuems etc and then offered to pay for someone to come in and look after day for the day (I usually did this though as Dad wasn't great with new people at first).

As my dads illness progressed in many ways he became easier to deal with, less aggressive, and far more plyable.

My mum did send him to respite occassionally but tbh was not worth the guilt that she felt about it, so in hindsight I am not sure that was such a good idea.

Regarding the smoking I'm afraid no advice as I have no experience of smoking, but I would have thought it could potentially be quite dangerous for someone to dementia to be smoking unless watched 24 hrs a day.

How ill is you mum, does she need to be watched all the time, does she need help with feeding washing etc?

LEM, i had no idea, i know you are having problems with your mum being demanding at the moment.
What really cuts me up was that i hated going to the shops when i was a kid and getting my mum ciggies and wine (this was in the 1970's) and it used to make me feel so guilty that i was buying stuff that would eventualy kill my mum.
Sorry, had a couple of glasses of wine and this is making me cry.
But now, when she is old i want to look after her and she is trying to kill herself and making my dad ill.
He is a wonderfull husband to my mum, no-one else in the world could have put up with her and he was warned beforehand by my late grandmother.
Why does life have to be so shitty? [sad}.
I'm going to visit her this Sunday as usual and give her an extra big hug as she's my mum whatever she has become.

I hope you feel better today ripeberry. I totally understand where you are coming from. I refuse to buy my mum cigarettes now, if she wants them she must get them herself, she is fit enough, but she knows better than to ask. I always hated it too, getting the ciagrettes for them when i was little. There has always been a level of resentment because my mum gave my dad a pants life really. She did make up for this by being totally devoted to him when he was ill. Turned out she loved him after all

You are right though, she is your mum after all is said and done. I honestly think the best thing you can do for your parents is to try and ensure that the professional help is there for your Dad for when it gets too much. Don't make the mistake we made and leave it til late and have to accept the first thing offered to us. Nightmare!

Don't feel bad about living your own life, thats the way of the world and your parents would want that for you anyway. I don't want my children encumbered by me when i am older.I also know that my father would have been so heartbroken to be so reliant on others i take heart that putting him into a care home was the best decision.